Requesting a guide

[Firen]

I'll do the others myself!

[Anastacia42]

It's not as if impactful if you don't come up with them yourself.

Number 3 is wrong. It isn't a turn around. It's a new sentence.. We only change one word at a time.

It should be something like they are not awake.

Number 2 is a good turnaround but it is not to self. The original thought is self.

It's alright, but like I said I don't think it'll have the impact.

Can you now say 100% that there's no self?

Have you experienced a shift in perception even if it faded?

https://youtu.be/Nw6tBnoMZyk?si=rotazwbt0frPrjM_

Loving,

[Firen]

Whoa, Stacy. This is so powerful. I wrote the turnarounds myself and Chatgpt helped me with the supporting points. I have edited them to make sure they accurately describe my experience. Here is one of the beliefs with turnarounds. It's astonishing how well this works and how deeply it is landing.

The voice in my head is me.

- Is it true? I don't think so.
- Can I absolutely know that it's true. No.
- How do I react, what happens when I believe that thought? Oof, the voice says all kinds of awful things. My life becomes unmanageable. I feel tied up. I can't make up my mind. It feels like war in my head. The voice changes so much I get confused.
- Who would I be without the thought? Absolutely thrilled. I would be thrilled. Such a great weight I could put down

- - Turnarounds:

- The voice in my head is not me.
1. I can observe it — I’m the witness, not the voice.
2. It changes constantly; “I” don’t.
3. Sometimes it contradicts itself — so which part would be “me”?

- The voice in my head is someone else.
1. The voice repeats things I’ve heard from other people — my parents, family, culture, teachers — not my own truth. Sometimes it says exact phrases that I remember others saying to me.
2. The voice speaks automatically, without my choosing what it says or when it speaks.
3. The voice talks to me as if I were a separate person, which shows it’s not me speaking.

- The voice in my head is no one.
1. The voice appears on its own without a real speaker behind it — just thoughts arising and fading.
2. When I look for who’s talking, there’s no one there — only sound or language happening in awareness.
3. The voice has no consistent identity; it changes tone, content, and perspective moment to moment, often contradicting itself.

- I am the voice in my head.
1. I give it energy and attention; I animate it.
2. When I identify with thoughts, I _become_ them.
3. My beliefs give the voice its tone.

- The voice in my head creates me.
1. The stories the voice tells — about who I am and what my life means — shape my sense of self.
2. When the voice calls me a certain kind of person, I start to act and feel in alignment with that story.
3. Without the voice’s narrative, the “me” it describes dissolves; my identity exists only as it speaks.

- I belong to the voice in my head.
1. When I believe it, I serve it — obey its commands, defend its stories.
2. My moods rise and fall according to what it says.
3. It puppeteers “me” until I step back into awareness.

- The voice in my head thinks it is me.
1. Thoughts constantly narrate “I,” “my,” “mine” — as if they own awareness.
2. The ego-voice claims authorship: “I decided,” “I failed,” “I should.”
3. It impersonates the self so convincingly that I forget to notice I’m listening to a voice.

[Firen]

Oh ok. Yeah the turnarounds have always felt confusing to me. I'll keep going and do it all myself.

[Firen]

Here's another one:

I am "doing" things. I am making decisions. I am a doer.

- Is this true? Maybe? Sometimes?
- Can I absolutely know that it's true? No.
- How do I react, what happens when I believe that thought? Heaviness, effort, struggle, tired, overwhelmed, knot in stomach, sluggish, disinterest, feeling of carrying the world
- Who would I be without the thought? Relieved! Free, carefree, joyful, playful, inspired

- Turnarounds:

- I am not doing things. I am not making decisions. I am not a doer.
- In my DE, at the point that something happens, I do not actually make the decision. The action just occurs on its own.
- The thoughts that propel me to "do" things are not controlled by me. I do not decide to decide.
- I often do things that "I" do not want to do.

- I am being. I am receiving decisions. I am a be-er.
- When there are no thoughts, my identity dissolves, but I am still here.
- I often feel compelled to do something and don't know why.
- I do not need to do anything in order to be.

- No one is doing things. No one is making decisions. No one is a doer.
- All of us have had the experience of deciding to do something and then actually doing the opposite. It is very common.
- Regardless of how much time the mind spends debating a decision, at the poing of action, no one I have ever met can pinpoint when they actually decided to act.
- Almost everything in the world is clearly out of human control. It is only the small circumstances of "myself" that feel like we are "doing" and those also are not being decided by us (see previous examples).

- Decisions are making me.
- Each choice that arises shapes what I call “me.”
- The flow of causes and conditions decides, and I am the outcome.
- The mind’s story of choice constructs identity.

[Anastacia42]

Whoa, Stacy. This is so powerful.

Yes!

I did The Work for years before I ever came to Liberation Unleashed.

LU used to have an Aftercare group for The Work, But the woman who started it is not guiding anymore so it has sort of fizzled away.

Loving,

[Firen]

Can you now say 100% that there's no self?

Have you experienced a shift in perception even if it faded?

Yes.

It's like it says in A Course in Miracles: all my beliefs have been upside down.

[Firen]

“You have made an upside-down world in which you have made your insanity seem real.”

Omg.

[Firen]

Thoughts are saying "Yay! I did it!....Ok, now what?"

LOL.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent!

These are checkpoint questions that other guides will read to check our work. They may have questions.

Try to keep your answers simple & succinct. You tend to post a book. :)


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Firen]

Hahaha. Ok will not post a book.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It starts very early, maybe before the age of 2. As a person starts to learn that they are "someone" with a name and an identity. This is taught to them by their parents, family, friends, the culture around them. Language is part of this process: it teaches the person to equate symbols and concepts with reality. Thoughts become conceptual and self-referential. Thoughts begin naming sensations that then become emotions with names like happy, sad, stressed, anxious. Thought + emotion patterns repeat over and over and begin to form a "personality" and a feeling of self. Awareness gets caught in these thought loops that are really just thoughts referencing other thoughts, endlessly. When thoughts loop with strong emotions, the pull into the vortex of self is nearly irresistible. All of this is supported by messages from outside the person and the culture at large, which makes it virtually impossible for a person to not identify as a separate "self." The person believes the thoughts are real, that "they" are having the thoughts and doing the actions, and thus becomes controlled by them. Because the person believes they are a separate small and limited self, they feel that they need to defend that self at all costs, leading to attempts to control, and endless cycles of anger, frustration, sadness, depression, shame, guilt and fear.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Shift feels subtle, but very real. Striving and anxiety have been reduced significantly; they are recognized as thought and dropped. Lots of thought patterns still happening all the time. Sitting in awareness and direct experience still seems infrequent and short, but always accessible. Hidden beliefs can be noticed by contraction in the body—the feeling of self means thought is happening.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Byron Katie. I needed to drop the expectations and see that they were nothing but thoughts. I needed to examine my beliefs about the self. I realized all of my beliefs were lies—they were actually upside down. The realization that truth and lie could be easily discerned in the body was the other thing. That happened with Byron Katie as well at the end. Every thought about self caused contraction. Self can always be seen through by putting awareness on the body.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision does not exist. There is no free will. It is an illusion. I can debate in the mind forever but the moment a decision is made to do A or B, I cannot find a decider. The hand flipping exercise is an example. Another example: I got out of the bed to pee in the middle of the night and was shocked to find I was walking before realizing a decision to go or not go had even been made.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention is a contraction. It is the sense of self in action attempting to control.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Does not exist. Free will is a concept. It only exists in the mind as a thought.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Also does not exist. Choice is a concept. There is no choice. There is only what is already here. Two drinks in front of me, my hand picks up one and not the other. No choice. No decision. Hand just pops out and picks it up.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is a concept. All things happen on their own. I cannot control which thought pops up. I cannot not have stressful thoughts. The body does its thing, heart beats, grows old, dies. If I can't control my own mind or my own body, what could I control?

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I don't know. I have no idea. Thoughts don't make things happen. Thoughts cannot answer this question. Things just happening all on their own. Heart beats. Body breathes. Mind thinks. Humans human. Trees tree.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing at all. There is no me. How could I be responsible for something?

6) Anything to add?

It's all so clear and so simple. It's astonishing.

Ok I was told not to write a book. Sorry, Stacy.

[Anastacia42]

Well, #2 is a book all by itself. The first 3 sentences were enough.

I've posted it for other guides to read. I'll let you know if they have any questions.

Good work, Firen.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

No one had any questions. Welcome home!

I believe you already have the links to the group meetings?

Our work here is complete but I'm sure there's a lot to unravel.

Loving,

[Firen]

Thank you, Stacy! Thank you for your patience and guidance.

I have these from a message you sent a little while back:

This is just a beginning.

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

[Anastacia42]

Yes, those. Todd & Pernille have a group now, too. He asks that you write to him.

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

I'm Stacy Ann Clark in Colorado on Facebook. if you want that. or write me here any time.

Much love