Ok

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:42 pm

We have a technique that might help. It's called direct experience (aka direct pointing):

DE is the original input one gets through SENSATIONS and SENSES, that tension you feel in your arm before labelling it as good (a tickle) or bad (a burn), the noise you hear before you interpret it as coming from a vehicle or elsewhere. DE is what is, prior to any sort of interpretations done by the mind.

Now, using DE, I want you to stay with this tension and sensation you feel in the throat area or anywhere else and see whether there's anything "personal" in it or sensations just happen independent of an "ego", just like thoughts do.
If at any time a thought comes and say, "These sensations are mine" see if there's any trace of truth in it.
Let me know how that went.

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:36 pm

It's my inner voice/soul or something deep inside trying to get to the survace. Feeling that this one comes inside out, not the other way around. Still it's just a feeling, that this body is experiencing. Nothing personal that should belong to 'me'

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:54 pm

Still it's just a feeling, that this body is experiencing. Nothing personal that should belong to 'me'
That sounds great.

About the feelings of fear, anger, and sorrow you're experiencing at times. The thing about feelings is that they simply want to be listened to and accepted. They don't have an agenda. You really don't have to do anything more than embracing them :) They are not here to harm you. They are just accumulated energy in a way. That energy needs to be dispelled and you can do that simply by watching them with openness and love. Let them tell their tale and dissipate. Fighting them off will just reinforce them and they will get back another time :)
So what you could do, if you think it might help, is take some time, half an hour or so, and bring back those feelings. Imagine a situation where such a feeling would be triggered and stay with the initial sensation. Don't label it in any way. Just stay with it until it calms down. You will feel very relieved afterwards.

Let me know if you'd like to do that, if you think this might help you on your path. And take as much time as you need.
Afterwards we can move on to other pointers about seeing through the illusion of the self.

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:25 pm

Hi,

I have tried it a couple of times. Tension turns into anger And then sorrow. At first it's connecting to thought but at the end it's just feeling of sorrow this body is experience. Dosen't have any labelsb, only feeling. At this point it dosen't go Any further than sorrow, but I can accept it And don't want to avoid it anymore.

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:42 pm

Tension turns into anger And then sorrow. At first it's connecting to thought but at the end it's just feeling of sorrow this body is experience. Dosen't have any labelsb, only feeling.
How do anger and sorrow feel like? Is it like a pressure somewhere in the body? A wave of tension?
Because anger and sorrow do not exist. They are labels. Just like pain doesn't exist. It's a label for a sensation that happens somewhere in the body.

Even "pressure" and "tension" are labels. I'm using them because they are somehow neutral. Everything is a label lol.

It's very important for you to master this technique because these sensations/feelings might still appear even after the end of our conversation here and you will have to deal with them somehow.

And a second thing, do these feelings (ANY feelings) you felt during these exercises felt "personal" in any way? Not just the "negative" ones but the "positive" as well.

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:56 pm

No they don't feel personal. Only that the feelings are here to 'tell' something, they need to be 'listened'.

Angee is pressure, And sorrow feels pressure coming off. Body is relaxed.

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:05 pm

Perfect :)
Let's move on.

Is there an “I” in direct experience?

Is there a watcher separate from the seen? Or is there just seeing happening?

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:06 am

Hi,

There is no I in direct seeing. No watcher separate from seen. Only seeing happnening. I can only experience this in 'now space' otherwice I wants to own my body but in now moment everything is clear.

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:49 am

Good.

Is there a self that controls breathing? that walks? that does daily activities?

Also, is there a self that chooses to do one thing or another? Here I also include major stuff that happened to "you" like career, education, family, etc. Have you ever chosen anything?

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:14 pm

There is no I that controls breathing walking etc, no one that chooses career, education tms. In now monent there is no I. Still I'm confused about me before even if I think that's maby irrelevant at this point. The I that was berofe Maya/ego. I only tought that. I was choosing my career And my husband..was I walking with blind eyes or was there still a guidance even if I tought that 'I' was doing those choises.

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:30 pm

was I walking with blind eyes or was there still a guidance even if I tought that 'I' was doing those choises.
Do you mean like a superior intelligence or divine being governing life?
That's a good question. What would the answer be from the perspective of DE? Is there anything out there that we can know about, using the tools we have?

Let's talk a bit about the body.
Does the body experience sensations and thought or is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:09 pm

Body is just a tought label for sensation.

And for the firs one. I mean like divine being. For really long time I tought that maby I had been some kind of Serial killer/something or someone Bad Person because my life was so misersble throw 'my' eyes.

In DE whole question/ thought is actually kind of funny, because there is nothing that seperates us (people) from everything that is. Now is anything there is.

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:19 pm

Now is anything there is.
Pretty much.

What about the platform on which things happen, call it mind-screen, call it awareness, etc. Is that a deeper level of the "self" or is something else, maybe even just another bodily function?

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Freerider
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Re: Ok

Postby Freerider » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:20 am

You mean 'earth'. I think it's a playscreen. Life experiencing itself throw 'my body'. In a way that higher awarenes is guiding me/I am they higher awarenes if I'm awake. I can experience it awske (still drinking water, building house etc) or a sleep where I am guided By 'I'

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Andrei
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Re: Ok

Postby Andrei » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:21 am

So you're not your body or your thoughts but you're this "higher awareness" instead? Have you replaced one illusion/belief with another?


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