Out of confusion and see the Truth

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Ilona
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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Sat May 13, 2017 4:25 pm

Oh beautiful!
Simplicity shines. Clarity shines. Peace is found.. welcome home!

Yes, this can not be unseen, it's a one way ticket. From here to here, but with different eyes.
I'm delighted for you.

What is the biggest difference from before we started this conversation?
What hasn't changed?

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Sun May 14, 2017 10:03 pm

What is the biggest difference from before we started this conversation?
What hasn't changed?
From surface, nothing changed. Wood chopped, water carried...
But inside, everything changed...The biggest thing is the "judgement" is gone (or 80% gone). The previously quick judgement to others then follows with guilt, then the judgement to "self" are effortlessly undetectable at most of time. Now, the conversation has been heard, the criticism and complain were given by others, but no more (or ever slightly) judgement, anger, needs to clarify, needs to explain....All these simply dying down effortlessly....It is like "I" don't have to try to be good, "I" am good without any pretending, forcing, struggling...
Still couldn't believe can be so not painful go through the day. Sometimes the thought came in as: Can "I" sustain and keep this flow? I don't want to lose this precious things...As soon as this question arise, there is "I" arise, then there is contraction, the fear. Then reminder about no "self" coming in, oh, relax, relax....

During sitting, the beautiful moments after moments. Simply emptiness space. No anxiety for gaining "insight" for every sitting; no anxiety if "I" could ever reach God, I am with God. There is knowing that consciousness is forever deepen and expanding. But there is no anxiety about how deep can "me" go. There is no "I" ever and simply let God, the consciousness, the Life using this body and mind as tool to experience life...

The change came unexpected, unplanned. The heart is joy and peace and no longer be pulling to different emotions through out the day. And most amazing things is: No trying! It just happened. It is like trying to lift this heaviest object over head and heart for years with all different ways but no success, and now suddenly lifted without effort...How this happened??

Trust set "me" free. "I" am free from "I".

Deepest appreciation...

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Sun May 14, 2017 10:06 pm

Typo:
Trust set "me" free. "I" am free from "I".
Truth set "me" free. "I" am free from "I".

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Tue May 16, 2017 1:40 pm

Thank you! Wonderful to read your words! I'm so happy for you.
During sitting, the beautiful moments after moments. Simply emptiness space. No anxiety for gaining "insight" for every sitting; no anxiety if "I" could ever reach God, I am with God. There is knowing that consciousness is forever deepen and expanding. But there is no anxiety about how deep can "me" go. There is no "I" ever and simply let God, the consciousness, the Life using this body and mind as tool to experience life...
Beautiful..
only tiny thing I would say differently, life is expressing as this mind, as body, as everything. Body, mind is not a tool, is god expressing as form. There is nothing in between life, all is life. Tools are just conceptual models of trying to explain..

How is it going? Are you ready for the final questions? Can you say with a big fat YES, you see now through the illusion of separate self?

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Tue May 16, 2017 5:45 pm

"...this Body, mind is God expression as form..." It is beautiful. Thank you.

I thought I was ready for the big fat "Yes". But then something disturbed this peace...It involved some chronic abusive behavior (whose opinion?) toward children by other family member...Whose children are they? Life. They are God's expression. But do "I" step in to protect the children from hurt by this situation? Can this "I" still experience anger, sadness and try to do something to improve the situation as this form? There is anger, there is sadness, there is urge to be doer and "do" something for your children to protect them...If there is no 'doer', can all hurtful behavior be excused? Can "I" still choose to change the circumstances for a more peaceful life and mind for this form and for the children? Of course, it is not "I" choose, it is Life...it is Life to protect these children...but can "I" as the Life's form say and do anything? Of course, words been spoken, action been placed....not by "me", but by Life....There is strange sensation as every time when words flowing onto screen, the more clear answer emerged...If there is commanding voice repeating: "there is no "I", so don't do anything, don't feel anything, don't take any actions...", then that commanding voice act exactly as "I"....This "I" try to deny the feeling, deny the urge for action, this "I" try to take over the Life....wow...WOW! now laughter, now the wood being chopped, the sadness and confusion be acknowledged, the action been taken, the decision been made with or without clear understanding or struggle...This is Life...as life expanding, all these will fall apart, only love remains...

Am I ready for the big fat "YES"?

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Tue May 16, 2017 9:40 pm

Ha, you tell me! I can't say yes for you!
Life lives as us with all decisions, choices included. We are not powerless, neither we have power, or need it. Cause there is nothing outside of life. Idea that there is a separate doer from life becomes redundant. All continues as it always did. till Only love remains, that's beautiful.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Tue May 16, 2017 11:40 pm

I say, Yes and Yes. I am ready for the big fat Yes.

This is just beginning of the road, ever expanding road to the Truth. There will be many many obstacles, tears, struggles on this path, but all those will ultimate lead to one thing: the Truth.

Before entering this gateless gate, "I" heard the Truth; after the gate, "I" see the Truth. With this seen, will lead to the Truth to the heart and gut.

There is huge deep appreciation to all of you and all of the past and future life experience. Life is beautiful.

Thank you

Bo

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed May 17, 2017 12:17 am

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Thu May 18, 2017 4:04 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. There is never a separate entity in any shape or form. Not ever
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It start as early as the memory formed at age 3-4 years old...as things belong to "me", if taken away, 'me' was getting hurt..Along the life, 'I' made decision to behave at certain ways, achieved certain goals, acquired certain things. It is all 'i' made happened.

But now it is completed clear. Life flow through and there never 'me'. Everything I thought it was 'me' who made impact, but actually automatic response within Life.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Freedom from years years bondage, confusion and desperation. Just like a very sick person, seeking doctors for many many years and finally had diagnosis. It doesn't means she is instantly healed, but she now know the cause of the illness...

Every thought, every movement are all expression of life. Inside this old giant 'I' start shrink smaller and smaller, sometimes feels this 'i' try so hard to hold on her dear life, and pop up her head here and there, but with every deep look, 'i' shrink more with knowing there is only Life. There is high alert and awareness paying attention all emotions, uneasiness, anger, etc. With every feeling, take a deep look, no judgement, just look to see where is come from. There is understanding if any judgement come in, this 'judgement' is manifest of 'I'. Even this 'i' pretending to repeating the words "Remember, there is no I, no self, so you can't think or act this way...." oh, so mind twisting! There is knowing of practice surrender to every moments and Peace comes with the completed trust and surrender.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Reading back the dialogues, clearly in the beginning there were just resistance, crying, struggling by Not wanting to take a deep look. But you, dear guide, kept your focus and push me to the corner, to no where to hide....There were thought like these: "she is not listening and I am crying all my heart out.... She is cold and she really doesn't care...I am hopeless case and I will never enter this gate....I am so confused and I just want to quit this mind game...."But thank you and thank you to keep your questions focued and knowing how to get me come down to take a deep responsible look by not act as a crying child cover her ears and eyes and refused to do the work...
The last push is when you asked "what is in the life is not happening automatically? Go and take look with your own experience..." That day, I looked. From every words came out of my mouth, every action I did, every thought...I see it, it all either automatically, or something seems I made choice, but the decision all based on past condition and all from Life...The more I stop and look, the more clearly I see.
5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
'i' never asked to be borne into this form at this particular historical time at particular part of the earth to a particular family. That is beginning of the story. Everything happened later in life all based on this beginning of story to make us behave certain ways, talk certain languages, made certain choices through out the life span. It surely feel that we have free will, choice and control. But it is all predetermined by this beginning of the story. Along the way, things happened, life continues, we paused, we listened, we looked, then intention raised to have change. Again, we felt 'we' decide to made change...ha, no, Life did. We never separated from Life and never could make any independent decision beside Life. Things are just happen. No "what" make it happen. It just did. Things come and go, no thing remain permanent. We are responsible just see what is. Accept what is and surrender to Life.

Real life Story: our 18 years daughter who was born with severe brain injury at birth. For many many many years, my heart cry and cry: "why her, why me, why us, why God punish a innocent child? why and why? I must did somethings terrible in the past life, now at this life punish her, punish me...it is my or her bad Karma.... what is going to happen after i die, who will take care of her...."on and on for 18 years....Just imagine the suffering!

But, The reality is: she is well taking care in the past 18 years by Life. She is the most peaceful happy unattached soul ever. She is not suffering despite so many surgery and physical injury, but her spirit is in complete peace. When her physical body hurt, she cry to expressed herself. When the pain is gone, she is in peace. Her mind never anticipate when the pain will come... She gives 100% smiles when you sing to her. She doesn't suffer as she lay on the bed for next 4 hrs and without knowing when will you come back to sing her next. She completed accept life as what is. She completed accept people as who you are, how you are in any moments. We, the 'normal people' might think that is because she doesn't have a healthy mind to do all that. I now see that because Life/God loved her so much and give her the most pure complete undisturbed mind. All these years, I couldn't see it. All I see is this poor baby never walk nor talk, never go to prom and never get married. I suffered and using her as excuse to suffer...Oh, Now I am free. Life will take care all of situation now and ever. Things happened, not good, nor bad. It just happened. As Course of Miracle said: Universe is self recognizing and self correcting. All we do is surrender, deep deep surrender. Let 'I' out of way and let life dance.
6) Anything to add?
One article at LU site had this quote:

1. If you de-construct the subjective pole, you will be led to the experience of No-Mind.

2. If you de-construct the objective pole, you will be led to the experience of One-Mind.

3. If you go through a process of de-constructing prepositional phrases like “in/out” “inside/outside” “into/onto,” “within/without” “here/there”, you will dissolve the illusionary nature of locality and time.

4. If you simply go through the process of self-enquiry by disassociation and elimination without clearly understanding the non-inherent and dependent originated nature of phenomena, you will be led to the experience of “I AMness”.

My question is: what next step? I know Life will guide me door after door and can you help to point a direction?

Deep deep appriciation

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm

Dear Ilona,

Let me try to keep this short but I really need help.

Yesterday morning after I answer this big fat "yes" long email, I drove 4 hrs to a chanting concert. On the way, I listened your and Elena's interview at "Buddha at Gas pump". That was first time heard your voice, neither I know much about this forum prior our dialogue happened. It was strike me in the interview, Elena and you described the exact phenomena I have experience since our conversation: 1. Relaxed as seeker 2. End of this suffering as seeker 3. changed internal judgement 4. Only Love left after all else falling as life's force. I was in "AHa" moment and wonder how we described the same feeling, then realized that we are all same mind....

Then at evening something happened at the beautiful concert by Deva Premel which completed tipped over my internal balance. There was middle aged lady about 60+ years old who came with her group girlfriends sit at same role just couple seats down from me. This lady had this most unusual loud laughter through out the concert. Her laughter came spontinensly without any correlation to what happened on the stage. I first thought she has some mental disability and her girlfriends were her caregivers...but soon realized she was able carry normal conversation just came with non stop loud laughter regardless the outside environment. This was chanting, praying concert and everyone closed eyes and chanting with Deva's golden voice. People all turn around look at her but clearly she was not awareing what was the effect of her laughter to others. My internal struggle as "no judgement to her" and accept "what is". Then there is internal disappointment to 'self' who couldn't get over the fact that 'I" let her bothered 'me' all night until now! So rather than completed immerse the mind and body into Deva's chanting, this lady's laughter and my 'self' judgement screamed in my heart all evening...I try to make sense about what was wrong with my perception, how to resolve this uncontrollable environment and this internal uneasiness. My brief bliss of this "effortless non-judgment" stage seems came to end. Again, struggle, fear....help!

Bo

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Fri May 19, 2017 7:00 pm

Hi Bo,
thank you for writing and reaching out.
the bliss is not the goal. it's an aftereffect. so don't worry, nothing is wrong. welcome back to planet earth. the idea of eternal happy ever after is just that, an assumption of what this should be like. there will be challenges still and things to deal with. the intensity of emotions does not get down but may get up. so don't make judgments on what this should be like.

the annoyance with the woman's laughter is fine, i would get annoyed too. it's not about being happy all the time. it's about being conscious off, aware of what is actually here. honest feeling. allowing the feeling be here as it is. that's the allowing. not the external situations ceasing to bring intense emotions. freedom is to feel all as it is.

so what is wrong with feeling annoyed?

sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Mon May 22, 2017 5:38 pm

Dear Ilona,

Thank you and your last line made me laugh! Very much needed...

Few understanding from that experience: 1. Auditory stimuli is sensation and the "annoying" feeling is sensation of pain the body perceives. 2, "I" actively try to deny the pain and try to talk "self" out "shouldn't feel annoyed ", that alone shows "I" want to control the situation, others and my own body. Above all, that is just a thought. Then this thought try to fight with body sensations which become internal battles...

Thank you


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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed May 24, 2017 3:14 pm

There is a difference between pain- sensation felt, and suffering- the feeling about sensation. It is ok to feel annoyed, if that is what is showing up, it is ok to feel whatever you feel. The freedom is not from feelings or sensations, but freedom is to feel all feelings and sensations without making them wrong or bad. Allowing all, saying yes to all. In whatever form or shape it shows up. There is no control to give up. There never was a controller, it only appeared so. It's ok to stop fighting..

Is there anything else we can look at together, or are you done with this conversation?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Out of confusion and see the Truth

Postby BoH » Wed May 24, 2017 8:10 pm

I am done with this conversation. Thank you so much and my world is really open up, relaxed, don't take this "me" so seriously...it is wonderful and peaceful. Of course not 100%, hi, even 10% better, I take it!


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