In search of no thing

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Focus33
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:59 pm

In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:01 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no I there is just isness. At least that concept is the closest " I "have come to know about, that at this moment resonates with my character.

What are you looking for at LU?
How to let go of layers that have clouded the understanding of oneness. How did others come to see and understand that they are already one and why is it so difficult to let go of some beliefs although one is very aware that they are suffering because of those beliefs.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Clarity. My character gets the concept of oneness but there is a lot of layers I need to communicate so I can get clarity about. I feel by talking to others and exchanging ideas I will be able to clarify the layers.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Studied mostly out of body experience
Energy work

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 11

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Gints
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:26 pm

Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:13 am

Hi there and welcome to LU!

This is Gints. Nice, you are here.

A few quick guidelines if you wish: look to post daily/regularly if possible or post to say if a break is needed. Better to set aside any other spiritual practices during our inquiry together.

Would like to ask some questions for a starter:

Can you write a bit what do you mean by isness, layers and my character?



Thanks!

Gints

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:53 am

Hi Gints,
Thanks for your response.
My understanding up to this point has been that in order to get to oneness and nothingness "I" have to dive deep into all the layers of beliefs and conditioning that has been accumulated throughout the years to get to nothingness. That is how I can explain about the layers. However when I look there, there is always an "I" there.
"Character" is me playing out this role although often I don't relate to it. I sometimes feel things are happening and I am just watching and sometimes I do things and I say things that come to me out of the blue. I keep asking myself who am "l"? I have no idea.
Isness is the state of emptiness of all the meanings that I give to everything.
I think my beliefs and opinions and judgements about everything has shrouded my sight for truth. I don't know how to get behind that " I". All I see is I , I, I.
I do appreciate your response

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:37 pm

Hi, Focus33, by the way, how should I name you?

If I can ask you... try to be as honest as you can, try to speak from your direct experience, fewer words are better, I mean, use only necessary words, try to communicate your thought as precise as you can, if you have any questions ask freely.
I don't know how to get behind that " I". All I see is I , I, I
What if there really is no I, none as in zero? Have you actually considered that? What comes up, when you face it?
There is no I and never was. No, you, as a manager, director, witness of life. There is only life flowing freely.

P.S. Take your time, don't need to hurry, don't need to be smart, start from not knowing.

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:00 am

Hi,
My name is Sepi.
Behind the "I " is apprehension, loss of control, anxiety.
Maybe I should just sit with those feelings. Do they ever subside?

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:15 am

Sepi, nice to hear from you.
Behind the "I " is apprehension, loss of control, anxiety
Yes, there can be some unpleasant or pleasant feelings arising during an investigation, but it is ok. Try to see feelings for what they are. Try to see that they are just sensations in the body. Relax and find where are they located, observe them coming and going. Look at them. While you are feeling them do you feel also label on them such as "anxiety" or you can observe thoughts also coming and going and telling the story though seemingly assigning meaning to feelings?
Sepi, I would ask you during our investigation to try to speak from your experience, from direct looking. Is that ok?
Next question goes as what do you mean by "behind the I"? Where is it? Can you find I? To say "behind I" you should see where the I is.

Take your time, observe and then come back with answer.

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:11 am

Hi Gints,
It feels that all the thoughts and emotions come together and I mistake them for an I.
When I really looked to see where "I" was, there was nothing but thoughts and emotions that I associated them with an identity.
Does this mean that I am just thoughts and emotions? Do I have to see through my thoughts and emotions to see that there is no I?
I need more time to grasp this.
I will write soon
Sepi

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:59 pm

Hi, Sepi!

Good observation, well done.
Now to our investigation.
When I really looked to see where "I" was, there was nothing but thoughts and emotions that I associated them with an identity.
You see, your real looking is the only "proof" for what really is. All other stuff is wishful thinking about thinking. Can you see this now?
Next, please look into what have you written in the second part of your answer carefully. While looking did you see this I who associated? You already told me that you have seen only thoughts and emotions and then immediately after that you start to speak about I and association? Can you see how stories are created?
Does this mean that I am just thoughts and emotions?
What do you think? You tell me, from what have you observed.
Do I have to see through my thoughts and emotions to see that there is no I?
I would say your mind is playing tricks. We people are so attached to thinking. Can you tell me how can you see I that is not there? Of course, you can think about it, but how can you see something which is not?
Please take your time, place you comfortably and start to observe. Observe thoughts, feelings coming going..... can you observe something else? Maybe some thought is telling you I am I or something similar, maybe some feelings are coming and thought is telling I am there, but does thoughts and feelings can create really existing I? Can you find it or all there is only thoughts and feelings?

Good, please ponder on my questions so far and come back with an answer.

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:39 pm

Hi Gints,
I did take my time to observe my thoughts. Some of my thoughts have such a charge that I completely get sucked into it.
On the one hand when I am more aware I don't pay attention
To all these thoughts arising.
However so often I just dive head first and get emotionally involved in my thoughts.
True! It is a trickster. My mind plays game and I am so used to it that I easily participate. Only after a while I remember
These are just thoughts.
I am in a confusing thought emotion loop.
I am being more observant of my thoughts and emotions.
Thank you for helping me get to nothing.
Sepi

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:57 pm

Sepi,

Can I ask you to post regularly? It is not because I want so, it is for the sake of our investigation.
Second, when I asked you to answer my questions I meant it literally. It is important for you to pay proper attention to what is asked. If you agree we can go on.
I am in a confusing thought emotion loop.
How does it work in your experience? Can you observe thoughts, emotions coming-going, can you observe all this mechanism? Thoughts followed by feelings and again more thoughts and feelings.
Watch this mechanism through the day write what have you noticed.
Can you see the exit from this supposed loop? Where is it?
Can you notice how stories are created? Can you see what is as it is? If you see all this are you cached in the loop anymore?
Go and see for yourself. Write what have you seen.

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:35 pm

Hi Gints,
I thought it would be good idea to delve in my experience deeply before I actually wrote you back. I understand now that I need to communicate more often.
I was driving to work and all I seemed to see was just a big screen in front of my eyes with cars and trees and constructions and people walking. For few moments I felt I am just a part of this screen and doing exactly what I am doing. There were no thoughts and emotions, just being.
The loop of emotions and thought were the background. It felt as if they had given their space to being present. This was a new experience.
There were no emotions attached to anything at those moments
It felt as if I was just observing life and participating in life. I was totally detached and felt a sense of freedom.
I will be writing again soon.
Sepi

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:01 am

Hi Gints,
I notice that I do not take things as seriously as I used to. They
Have lost their meanings or I am not judging them. Life is so much in flow.
Sepi

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Sepi,
The loop of emotions and thought were the background. It felt as if they had given their space to being present.
If I ask you to tell from direct perception can you perceive emotions and thoughts in the background or is it imagination-thinking telling?
When thoughts and feelings are there what is wrong with being present? Don't answer what you think. Observe and then report.
There were no emotions attached to anything at those moments
It felt as if I was just observing life and participating in life. I was totally detached and felt a sense of freedom.
Take a deep look. Observe and write. Are coming and going emotions limiting present moment? Can emotion attach to something or is it imagined? Are emotions distracting observation or they too can be observed?

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Focus33
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Focus33 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:48 am

Hi Gints,
I do perceive thoughts and emotions but they are more fluid.
I truly don't think I am imagining them. Unless imagining
Is a term I am not familiar with. Thoughts come and go of their own accord. Sometimes things come in thought form
That I have no idea where they came from.
When thoughts and emotions are present it feels as if they put a hook on me or it is so familiar that I tend to do as I have always done
and I go with their flow. When I am aware of my thoughts then
I don't get hooked but so often it is some time before
I know I am drawn in my thoughts. When I am in thought I am not present at all
I am living in an imaginary scene. There is no joy when I am in my thoughts.
I do tend to get triggered by some thoughts and become emotional but I am perceiving that emotions arise from my thoughts and do not have a life of their own. My thoughts
Give my emotions life.
I think like thoughts , emotions can be perceived too, like
Some form of energy.
Sepi

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Gints
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Re: In search of no thing

Postby Gints » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:35 am

Sepi,

Please take a look how to use quote function

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Can I ask you, please quote each question from my post and give an answer to it?
Can I remind you that during our investigation we are interested in EXPERIENCE? What can you perceive directly?
I do perceive thoughts and emotions but they are more fluid
Can you see the difference between perceiving thoughts, feelings coming-going and "they are more fluid"? Can you perceive fluidity of thoughts, feelings? If yes what it will be? Isn't it another thought-feeling?
Sometimes things come in thought form
How can you perceive this? Can you actually perceive how sometimes things are coming in thought form, or you are thinking about it? Can you see the difference between perceiving and thinking about?
When thoughts and emotions are present it feels as if they put a hook on me
Please observe it and report to me what have you OBSERVED. Please, tell me what have you seen? How do thoughts and feelings put a hook on you? How actually can they do this? Please don't tell me what you think about it. OBSERVE what does actually take place!

P.S. Look through my previous post again and give answers to questions using the quote function. If something is unclear please feel free to ask me any question. So you have two posts to ponder on, don't hurry take your time. Look, look very carefully and report what have you seen.


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