Dawn, this is your thread

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:27 am

Take in whatever is happening in perception, do not fight anything.

When something appears, whatever it is, tension, desire, sound, anything - focus on it, laser sharp, observe it before any thoughts about it appear. Is there an I before the thoughts appear or does it come with the thoughts?

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:36 pm

I seems to label experience. Experience is already there. I is like wrapping it up with a bow.

I always do this. Er, it comes with the thoughts.

Of course that first sentence in the last paragraph is false. It's another theory - mind wants to check it. Ignoring...

I had some success today. My search has gotten quieter, less frenzied, I don't know. There it goes again. Anyway, some success today because of a few things:

* Giving up things I'd read, my own successes. I decided to just look at reality, and knew the right thoughts would come in out of habit. (I am much more relaxed...)
* Focus on reality. I was able to finally look at thoughts about past and future and dismiss them as false. Future is easy. Past took a while to sink in. Now I get it.

I came up as a thought and I recognized it as having the same sense of unreality as past and future.

More clarity in vision temporarily... slipping into thought again more. I'm trying again shortly.

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:09 pm

You're doing great. Does the I-label point to an actual entity outside of thought?

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:31 pm

I keep coming up with "no" but it feels like "not right now" or "not yet" or "not here," unconvinced. What is not here and now? I know, we've been over this. Reality is the only thing that is right here and now, and if there is no I here and now, there is no I in reality. Perfectly logical. Why do I not believe this?

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:13 pm

You don't need to believe it, it doesn't need to make sense or be logical, you don't need to remove your doubts. You just need to see what is right there, right now. Look. Is there an actual "I" entity outside of thoughts?

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:04 pm

I'm not sure how to look. Every time I check I get "nothing right now."

I had an interesting experience last night and I'm going to try to remember it here before I forget it all...

First, I went to bed early last night. I was exhausted but my mind was still awake, so I started doing no-self exploration. Focus inward, on reality... ok, no boundaries... sensations here, there. And then, somehow, there was this shift where the center that held it all together and organized it dissolved, and the sensations were IN the areas they came from, and not being somehow gathered into an interpreted lump in my head. All very clear, more intense. I remember wondering if this was what liberated senses feel like all the time. I'd like to know, so I can see if I should try to pursue this receptive state again.

Sadly, I don't remember exactly how this was accomplished... it went on and off all night as I was sleeping, and has become a blur.

Also, it occurred to me that what we're dealing with here is very relevant to the caloric reflex test and anosognosia. I'm going to squirt some cold water in my left ear and see what happens. Seriously.

As you can tell, I'm convinced again this morning that I'm in control of all of this. Sad and funny, all the more because I'm aware of it.

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:45 pm

It's like this. You are as good as through, basically with both feet, it's staring you right in the face, you're already seeing it, but there's still this thread that you are hanging on to like your life depended on it and going "This can't be it. Can it?"

STOP. FIGHTING.

Forget states, forget shifts, forget experiments, forget all of that. Distractions. You need to focus on ONE thing only - is there an actual you, RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW. If it's not there now, where/when would it be?

Run through reality again, just like you did, step by step, sensations, thoughts, sounds, perceptions, take it all in, don't try to get into some state, don't search, just SURRENDER, simply let what is already there be, the doubt, the feeling of control, the fear, everything happening right there, right now, everything that is.

All you need to do at this point, ALL you need to do is answer one question with complete honesty. That's it. One question, one look, one answer. As simple as that. Literally.

Is there an actual you in this?

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:38 pm

Rahaen, I can tell you why. The one thing I've read for sure is that when I see, really see, I will be certain it happened, without a doubt. So every day I check to see if I'm there, and I also check to see if I've been convinced. Still not convinced. The post you've written above does not contradict this, if I'm reading it right - just tells me to, literally, get over myself.

I will go through the steps again, but my schedule for the next few days is insane again. I will post asap. Not dodging this, I really want to. So sick of this edge and want to go over...

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:41 pm

I just loaded this forum and mis-read: "Is anyone else there?" That was interesting to ask myself. Because, you know, it might as well be someone else, right?

> Is there an actual you in this?

The more I look, the less me there is. Every day it gets deeper.

Right now, I'm at this point where it's only mature to admit there's nothing, and hovering above that there's this simmering blob of self-deception which I've been trapped in for as long as I can remember.

Who's been trapped there? I don't know. There never was a me to be trapped there. There's just this body, here and now, with perfectly reasonable things happening to it.

I'm afraid of getting sucked back into the delusion. But that's like... where do "I" come from to get back into it? It's like assuming I'm always asleep because sleep comes sometimes.

Who is I? Who is this person I keep talking about? Self-referentially?!

Does it exist physically? No.

Mentally? Not alive, no. Only as a concept. Concepts are not sentient.

Do I exist as a self separate from reality? No, that's crazy. Crazy talk. All that exists is in reality.

Am I here in reality? No, dammit, there's nothing here that could remotely be called a self. But... no, there's still nothing here that could be called a self. But... no, still no... sigh.

Doubt isn't a function of self. Doubt exists outside of self. No need for self...

Is there a need for someone to exist separately?
Universe takes care of itself on its own. No I.

The historical I pops up: "I did it I did it!"

The feeling I pops up: "I must not have done it..." :(

Reality is just quiet, and there.

I don't care if I did it or not. Life will bring me here again.

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:15 pm

:)

This is basically it. Just this underlying quietness. Any deeper experiences, states of consciousness/perception or whatnot may come and go, or not. They are not required for this, rather they just appear and dissolve in it as does everything else. It feels to me like you finally stopped chasing them.

There's no one to awaken or to see, just seeing happening and thoughts about it. And don't worry about unseeing or somehow forgetting this - you can't. Anytime there's a doubt you can simply look.

I have a few more questions to clear up things, please answer in as much detail as you can.

- How does it feel to see this?
- Can you pinpoint the moment you looked? What was the last bit that made you just look and accept what is?
- How does the illusion of a separate self work exactly, when does it start?
- How would you explain this to someone who's never heard of it or considered it before?

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 pm

- How does it feel to see this?

It feels exactly the same. Still altered states coming and going, but there is no belief in the self.

The first day there was a very, very relaxing sense of no agency - calmness, no need to make decisions (as they made themselves), a sort of lassitude. Also, short term memory for social interaction seemed much less effective... interesting. I kept checking, checking, not there not there, really not there! Speaking about ego-related things felt very odd, uncomfortable, like fur ruffled backwards.

The next day I had to deal with crowds of thousands of people, and I was consumed all day with thoughts of "I've lost it - not enlightened. Am I here? Well, no, but still..." They were very convincing thoughts. But I recognized them as convincing thoughts, not as true.

- Can you pinpoint the moment you looked? What was the last bit that made you just look and accept what is?

I was staring at my ceiling fan thinking about doubt, which you said to allow. It wasn't one thing in particular, just a sudden cluster of realizations about doubt. One, that it's a feeling, not a truth, and need not be taken seriously; two, that no one needs to be feeling it anyway; three, that it sort of exhibits the same functions as self - neither thought needs to be true for life to work. And vision got clearer, and I didn't need to believe them anymore.

- How does the illusion of a separate self work exactly, when does it start?

If you go on Youtube and look up videos of babies, you see it. "This behavior pleases them - checking - is this right? Does this limb go here? Am I doing it right?" It's just a feedback loop. The parents are pleased when the children stop observing and feeling and instead mimic the adults, because it validates the adults' own sense that they're not really lying to themselves, they're all actual authentic humans.

- How would you explain this to someone who's never heard of it or considered it before?

Have you ever noticed there's a sense of terror about looking at reality too closely? Like you'll discover something you didn't want to know? You're right, there's a lot of difficulty you'll have to work through if you look. It's not easy. But at the moment you're living in denial, and the misery is causing you strain, suffering that doesn't need to be there.

The brain likes to theorize and then prove its theories. So you'll think something like, "I'm angry," and then notice how true it is: brows down, face hot, bad feelings. The fists will clench and you'll start to think about yes, just how very angry you are and at who and why. You've given yourself a script and you will follow it to its end, try it out, because it's an interesting adventure for the brain.

Years and years ago you got curious about having a personality, and decided to test that out. You've tried out dozens of traits over the years to figure out what shape your personality has. But it has been like decorating an imaginary Christmas tree. There never was anything to hang those qualities on. You could have been anything. Anything. If you look really closely, honestly, you'll discover that the terrifying truth is, there never was a you to begin with. Just this thought-experiment in the brain.

Just a body. Solid and straightforward and subject to the same laws as everything else, everything in reality you've always considered somehow "other." The glass wall between your eyes and the universe exists only in your head. You are literally imagining yourself. If it's not true... prove it to yourself.

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:01 pm

That should have been: "the strain is causing you misery."

Actually, everything is running exactly as it should, which is pretty mindblowing to appreciate.

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Devina
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Devina » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:38 am

I just did explain this to someone. Here I'd been thinking it's not that big of a deal, really, but then I smacked up against walls of distressed denial and realized just how radical it sounds. "It's not a belief, it's something you can prove to yourself. No, it's not a philosophy, it's just real. No, there are no choices made, just make one and watch... no really, watch... No, we don't believe the same thing in different ways... No, it has nothing to do with politics..."

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Rahaen
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Re: Dawn, this is your thread

Postby Rahaen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am

No, we don't believe the same thing in different ways... No, it has nothing to do with politics...
Haha, haven't had that one so far :) People are funny. Anyway, by now I don't think you need me to tell you this, but here's your official "Through the Gate" seal. I've had a few other guides look over it and everyone's happy. And so am I! :) Great work. Take your time to let it sink in and enjoy it.

And here's your "welcome package" with a couple of important pointers :) Whether it seems like a big deal at the moment or not - it'll likely become more and more obvious to you, in different ways, that it's kind of a new world for you now. Or rather it's the same world, but you've started seeing it without a filter on.

The most important thing, and I can well imagine you realize that, is that this is not the end of the road. It's the first step of an awakened, authentic life. While the belief in a separate and real 'you' may be gone, chances are, a big part of the ego-based structure built on top of that belief is still in place. How big, only you can know. It is likely that at some point doubts will come up, reactions that may be considered "not useful" (for lack of a better word) will happen, and (possibly deep) negativity will arise.

The important thing here is that all these things used to cling to and be fueled through the idea of self, which is now seen as an illusion. So whenever thoughts or emotions come up that are judged as negative, don't avoid, don't fight, don't argue. Just stay with them and watch them happen and unfold. It's not personal, it cannot be as you now know, and if it's truly not useful to the moment it will dissolve if you simply surrender as in just let it be whatever it is. It has nowhere to stick to. This kind of cleanup is obviously not a pleasant process but you'll likely realize that it actually works. All you have to do is take your hands off the steering wheel, so to speak, and let things burn when they go on fire.

Something else that you may or may not experience is a lack of drive and a sense of pointlessness as in "There's no me to do anything, there's no future in any sense of the word, so what's the point." Whatever the point is, it's right here and right now like everything else. All desires and drives that you experience are real and part of the unfolding of this moment, they're just not your desires. So what you do is you pay attention to what the authentic drive of the moment is and you just let it unfold in whatever way it unfolds. Go with what feels right. It'll likely take time to move entirely away from "I'll sacrifice now, cause in a minute/hour/year it'll be like this or like that.", but it's happening on its own anyway. Basically, all you have to do is realize that the illusion of you is not in the way of what is required by the moment and "your" authentic desires as part of it. Just pay attention to that underlying feeling of "rightness" in every moment, kind of a "this is what's needed next" and just go with it. This sense of rightness goes way deeper than emotion or thought. It's this inner knowing of what needs to happen and it doesn't need to make sense in the rational sense of the word. As usual, don't take my word for it, play around, observe, experience.

It comes down to one thing and that's surrender. It's just that surrender has a very "victim"-like feel to it when you look at it from the perspective of being a person and is something completely different when you take the person out of it. For example, you are working on something (likely less urgent than putting out an actual fire), you feel hunger coming up and there's thoughts like "I'll eat when I'm done, this is important, I can't just leave my work now." Surrender would be to get up, go get some food and enjoy it.

If you're on Facebook, send me your username via PM and I'll add you to our aftercare group for the freshly liberated. If you're not on Facebook, this might be a good reason to create an account. Doesn't have to be your real name and you don't have to tell your friends. :)

Welcome home.

Big hug


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