Seeking help getting to the exit door

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:32 pm

Just because a person has seen no inherent self in awareness, thoughts and emotions doesnt mean the trash shouldnt be taken out to the bin and other responsibilitys. But your right who would take care of it? The answer would be life and its inteligents but no one is in control but that doesnt mean we dont still operate we kinda just go and do stuff or dont do stuff. We can fall asleep back to egoic nature even or wake up determining by what we believe and stand for if you didnt believe in the truth of being we wouldnt be talking. Some people believe drinking and sex are lifes highest goals so they end up in bars instead of satsung. But are goal is to not distract ourselves from our truth here. I get angry and sad and do stupid things but the healing of those things is more and more by the day because I am hell bent on feeling everything not because I want to feel like a special person but because I know these things are truly just temporary and fall away and another notch of peace happens in my psyche. Its not an over night thing that we become completely still. Your at the stage where you are starting to see the trick, at this time your best friend is nature or your favorite book on the now to condition you to keep looking where your looking from. Thoughts are tricky because we were conditioned to live by them and never question them but isnt it funny we can do that? It means we are outside of them not completely entrenched by them. Thats good news for us. My head was a circus and it was because I never had someone teach me about the importance of feeling and not bottling up or closing myself off from myself. Your getting it all is asked of you in every moment is for you to be their, not having your mind completely take over but when it does watch that to. Youll see that you can live unflinchingly but watch the flinching you havent failed because if you are life where are you going to go? Just watch and listion and feel inside your skin. Hence why the masters lived in caves lol.
Just checking in. Can't say there's not been much development along the lines you've been suggesting. Remembering to pay attention to, or keep attention in the body, is like practicing sati. The tricky part is remembering to do it. I've set random reminders on the (not so smart) phone. It helps some, but this will be a very long term practice.

The doubt about having seen through the first fetter is gone. I had a conversation with Todd Lent about this (I assume you either know, or are familiar with Todd), and he pointed out how the problem was expectations around the first fetter falling away. He pointed out the clear indicators that the first fetter/sense of an actual, solid existing self is indeed seen through for the Darrell character.

He suggested getting involved with guiding, to stay engaged with this, in a number of different of ways. What needs to happen in order for me to guide others?

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MerlinC
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby MerlinC » Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:08 am

I know nothing of the the fetters, I do know reality is always there wither the mind says it sees or not. Its all about watching and listioning but importantly feeling our experience. If we distract ourselves from our reality can we call ourselves awake?
A buddhist monk walks in to a pizza shop and asks the pizza guy, make me one with everything....

What you are and where you are is the samething.

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:42 pm

I know nothing of the the fetters, I do know reality is always there wither the mind says it sees or not. Its all about watching and listioning but importantly feeling our experience. If we distract ourselves from our reality can we call ourselves awake?
Hmm... The fetter model central to all of this for me, it's a useful way for me to understand and work with this stuff. I really need someone who understands that, and can help me with that. I hope you won't mind my asking, but I'm wondering if maybe you could hand me off to a guide who works with the fetters. Would you mind doing that for me?

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MerlinC
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby MerlinC » Thu Nov 02, 2023 3:53 pm

I posted on the site for another guide to help you. are you on the Facebook group yet?
A buddhist monk walks in to a pizza shop and asks the pizza guy, make me one with everything....

What you are and where you are is the samething.

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MerlinC
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby MerlinC » Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:06 pm

What Fetters do you believe you are stuck on?
A buddhist monk walks in to a pizza shop and asks the pizza guy, make me one with everything....

What you are and where you are is the samething.

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:45 pm

What Fetters do you believe you are stuck on?
Wouldn't describe it as stuck, just that there's work to be done to get through two and three. Vince Schubert, Pernille Damore and Todd Lent have confirmed this. I don't know if you're familiar with any of them. Vince and Todd were or are LU guides too.

Yes, they are just mental constructs, or beliefs, but they are useful to address certain beliefs, tendencies, etc.

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MerlinC
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby MerlinC » Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:31 am

I dont know them people personaly no, I read up on the Fetters so I can help you. So Im going to get down to reality and the effects of Anger and conciet on it and its remedy for the lot of it. Firstly what is life and are you it or living it?
A buddhist monk walks in to a pizza shop and asks the pizza guy, make me one with everything....

What you are and where you are is the samething.

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Tue Dec 05, 2023 6:34 pm

I dont know them people personaly no, I read up on the Fetters so I can help you. So Im going to get down to reality and the effects of Anger and conciet on it and its remedy for the lot of it. Firstly what is life and are you it or living it?
Merlin,

I appreciate your help, but this approach to inquiry really isn't working for me, it just doesn't connect for me. I've tried, and I've been trying for months, but it just never lands. Respectfully, if you would help me to get set up with another guide, that's probably the biggest help I would ask of you now. I thank you for your time and effort, but I just have to be truthful that this isn't connecting for me.

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Bluejay
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Bluejay » Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:03 pm

Hello Darrell,

I'm Henri.

I work with the fetters, more with Kevin's version, but I am somewhat familiar with Pernille's as well.

We could chat and see if I can help. If not, we can see if another guide can.

If that sounds good, then my first question would be: Is there something in particular that is arising in this moment that you would like to focus on?
"What hurts you, blesses you. Darkness is your candle." -Rumi

My website: https://www.wakeupcloud.com/

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Thu Dec 07, 2023 9:40 pm

Hi Henri,

I suppose it's this: It felt like the first fetter went, but the second and third still seem to be intact. Common wisdom is when one goes, so do two and three, but I've spoken to more than a few people who say that wasn't the case for them. to that point, there's been this persistent doubt. In spite of something very definite happening when that moment of seeing the self was an illusion, that it simply doesn't exist. It was very clear for about a week or two. Then this doubt came in pretty strongly, that the first fetter hadn't been seen through.

While I'm using Pernille's process, I'm pretty familiar with Kevin and Christiane's approach. I use some of her inquiry methods. Kevin doesn't seem to have any for the first three, at least not on his webpage. But I'm open to whatever you think will further the process.

Thank you sincerely,

Darrell

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Bluejay
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Bluejay » Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:04 pm

I suppose it's this: It felt like the first fetter went, but the second and third still seem to be intact. Common wisdom is when one goes, so do two and three, but I've spoken to more than a few people who say that wasn't the case for them. to that point, there's been this persistent doubt. In spite of something very definite happening when that moment of seeing the self was an illusion, that it simply doesn't exist. It was very clear for about a week or two. Then this doubt came in pretty strongly, that the first fetter hadn't been seen through.
Understood!

So let's begin exploring. My intention here is to just get to know what's going on with no real goal for anything. Just poking about :-)

I'll ask a bunch of questions. No need to answer all of them, so if nothing comes up, leave it, and focus on the questions that stir something.

I imagine there are times during the day when there is no doubt and it's clear that there is no inherent self, right?

What is going on during those times internally in terms of thoughts, identification with anything, beliefs, emotions, and so on? We're just exploring so feel free to share anything that seems relevant.

And when there is doubt, what is happening then, and how is that different from the above?

Do you also notice the doubt being a distraction from feeling something, such as a lack of worth, sadness, hopelessness, anger, despair, etc?

For example...
Then this doubt came in pretty strongly, that the first fetter hadn't been seen through.
Maybe these questions can stir something:

If the first fetter would be seen through, what would it mean?
Is there something you would have to face that you would rather not?

What is the doubt protecting you from?
Where is the safety in doubting this, in staying with thoughts?
Was thinking used like this for safety in earlier parts of life? For almost everyone this was the case in one form or another. (no personal details needed here, just what is relevant).
While I'm using Pernille's process, I'm pretty familiar with Kevin and Christiane's approach. I use some of her inquiry methods. Kevin doesn't seem to have any for the first three, at least not on his webpage. But I'm open to whatever you think will further the process.
That's perfect. Follow what feels alive for you and what resonates (body yes), but at the same time notice if it is being co-opted by avoidance. The difference is often known through reactivity. In other words, reacting to a sensation and wanting to escape it and pretending that is a body yes.

Nothing to be overly focused on, but good to just be aware of for now.

I'm pretty sure you're clear on direct experience vs thinking, but let me know if not.

You also haven't done any pointers or exercises in this thread so I'll throw in those from time to time as well.

And if at any point you feel something being off, let me know and we can recalibrate.
"What hurts you, blesses you. Darkness is your candle." -Rumi

My website: https://www.wakeupcloud.com/

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:09 am

Henri,

I have printed out your questions and will go through them. I'll reply in the next few days after I can spend some time going through them slowly.

Thank you,

Darrell

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Bluejay
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Bluejay » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:04 am

Sounds good. Take your time!
"What hurts you, blesses you. Darkness is your candle." -Rumi

My website: https://www.wakeupcloud.com/

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Darrell
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Darrell » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:36 pm

Update:

Just so you don't think I've dropped off on you. We've had a pretty serious family health situation. My wife is in the hospital since early Friday morning. So I've been seriously distracted. Having said that, I'll turn anything into an opportunity to further the process of waking up.

I'll get back to you regarding the set of questions within the next few days.

Best regards,

Darrell

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Bluejay
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Re: Seeking help getting to the exit door

Postby Bluejay » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:43 pm

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about your wife. I hope she gets better!

Feel free to take your time if you feel it is needed.
"What hurts you, blesses you. Darkness is your candle." -Rumi

My website: https://www.wakeupcloud.com/


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