Just This

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:34 am

One guide asked:

She wrote "just like response to environment, like response to other people actions."

- What is this wich is separate and respond?

- Self is seen and is known that it is imaginary or it is seen that there is no such thing as a self?

Please respond to both questions 🙏
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Aeze
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Re: Just This

Postby Aeze » Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:32 pm

"just like response to environment, like response to other people actions."

- What is this which is separate and respond?

This question to be honest does not make sense, it implies like there is actual separation, in experience something happens and moment itself response to what is happening, it is one flow, process, nothing is separated here, like river, there is no entity in the flow. All is just life movement, everything is just dynamic, just process, nothing is static, and all movement is happenings withing that which never changes or moves, but that is all one, not two serrated things, which are not even things

- Self is seen and is known that it is imaginary or it is seen that there is no such thing as a self?

Self is a thought, Is there such thing as thought? It is and it is not, it looks like is something real, but is it real? can you put thought in the jar? Can you touch thought? Can you see it? Can you taste it? Can you smell it? But thoughts are perceived, right? So is thought real or not? Does thought exist or not? If we are experiencing both physical and non physical simultaneously, how can we define what is real and what is not? Who is taking the position to say "I know" this is real and this is not? Every time we take a position it automatically crates opposition, duality. And there is automatically a knower who knows what is right and what is not.

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:48 pm

Thank you! We can dance more with subtleties of the relationships of language and experience, the relative and the absolute, but this is more then clear enough to land the process. Three guides confirmed the seeing. As you know in the end the seeing is experienced or not, no external validation is objective. And yet, this is it for our walk here. Nerina will contact you and invite you to the gatecrashers facebook group (Unleashed). There I will greet you. We can be friends on Facebook if you wanna reach out in the future, and also I will tell you about more options for shared exploration and mutual support. Look forward to see you there!
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Aeze
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 pm

Re: Just This

Postby Aeze » Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:58 pm

Thank you very much, I really appreciate your help and work. You are very right, there is no even any need to validate raising here. And I am very happy to know I can have further support in this process, looking forward to chat to you again. Than you!

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:00 pm

🤍
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:32 pm

"just like response to environment, like response to other people actions."

- What is this which is separate and respond?

This question to be honest does not make sense, it implies like there is actual separation, in experience something happens and moment itself response to what is happening, it is one flow, process, nothing is separated here, like river, there is no entity in the flow. All is just life movement, everything is just dynamic, just process, nothing is static, and all movement is happenings withing that which never changes or moves, but that is all one, not two serrated things, which are not even things

- Self is seen and is known that it is imaginary or it is seen that there is no such thing as a self?

Self is a thought, Is there such thing as thought? It is and it is not, it looks like is something real, but is it real? can you put thought in the jar? Can you touch thought? Can you see it? Can you taste it? Can you smell it? But thoughts are perceived, right? So is thought real or not? Does thought exist or not? If we are experiencing both physical and non physical simultaneously, how can we define what is real and what is not? Who is taking the position to say "I know" this is real and this is not? Every time we take a position it automatically crates opposition, duality. And there is automatically a knower who knows what is right and what is not.
The guide who asked questions to you felt different then the rest of us. He wrote a comment with some questions. I thought I will just pass it on to you. Can't hurt. He wrote:


Ok. If I ask you ask you - Is there a Santa? will you reply - " it looks like is something real, but is it real?"
Is this sound like there is realisation, that there is no such thing as Santa?
The answer of the client is from thinking.
Yes, there are 3 confirmations, but you are the guide here and when you feel, that there is shift in the client the thread is over.
I feel that there is no shift but understanding. The client just think that it has seen.
Please ask the client "What is this "it"?
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Elad
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:25 am

Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:54 pm

Please answer the guides comments and question, so we make sure to help the best possible
.
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Aeze
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Re: Just This

Postby Aeze » Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:19 pm

By "It" i meant thought. If we use Santa analogy, then as something physically real it does not exist, but as a thought form, as imagination, as non physical it has been perceived though, same as dreams, they do not exist as something physically real, but dreams happen, every night in human consciousness. So we can not deny thoughts appearing, however there is no reality behind them. Dreams they feel pretty real until we wake up. Santa feels pretty real until we see it was just a thought created image/character, and only thing made it feel real, believing it is real, once it has been seen as just mind created projection/thought form and there is no reality behind it, we no longer can believe Santa is something real. Please ask more questions if something need to be clarified.

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:25 pm

By "It" i meant thought. If we use Santa analogy, then as something physically real it does not exist, but as a thought form, as imagination, as non physical it has been perceived though, same as dreams, they do not exist as something physically real, but dreams happen, every night in human consciousness. So we can not deny thoughts appearing, however there is no reality behind them. Dreams they feel pretty real until we wake up. Santa feels pretty real until we see it was just a thought created image/character, and only thing made it feel real, believing it is real, once it has been seen as just mind created projection/thought form and there is no reality behind it, we no longer can believe Santa is something real. Please ask more questions if something need to be clarified.
Lubo (the guide who asks) answered:

"By "It" i meant thought. - Why thoughts should be someone/something but not just thoughts?
"dreams happen, every night in human consciousness. " - What makes you to share that there are different consciousness? Is there human which is consciousness? or there is experience called human in the consciousness?
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Aeze
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 pm

Re: Just This

Postby Aeze » Sat Nov 25, 2023 10:45 pm

By "It" i meant thought. - Why thoughts should be someone/something but not just thoughts?
"dreams happen, every night in human consciousness. " - What makes you to share that there are different consciousness? Is there human which is consciousness? or there is experience called human in the consciousness?


Thought is just a thought, and consciousness in just a consciousness, when did I say there are different consciousnesses? No need to complicate anything with separating anything, all are just words anyway, all is appearing from very same, perceived by very same and disappear in very same. Very same thing which is not a thing takes a shape or form of anything and all this is perceived be very same simultaneously, humans, thoughts, dreams, anything, all is very same.

Is there human which is consciousness?
Sorry, but to be honest I can not even understand this question.

or there is experience called human in the consciousness?
all there is, just experiences unfolding all the time, in what they are unfolding, I have no an idea what it is, to put any label on This, just does not work, no labels can define what This is, no label stick to This. This is something free of any definitions or limitations.

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Elad
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Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sun Nov 26, 2023 7:41 am

To me this is very clear thank you! Didn't hear from Lubo yet, if there is more where he believes help can be offered we will take it from there.
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

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Elad
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:25 am

Re: Just This

Postby Elad » Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:42 am

Lubo confirmed also now :)

Nice to connect on FB also. See you there 🤍
Those who have great realization of delusion are Buddhas; those who are greatly deluded about realization are sentient beings.

- Eihei Dōgen

User avatar
Aeze
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:52 pm

Re: Just This

Postby Aeze » Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:13 am

That's great to hear. Thank you! 😊


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