Inquiry

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Sabine
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Re: Inquiry

Postby Sabine » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:43 am

Hello Jon

I need some time for more looking.
Is there something,some feeling of thought that lies behind this?

Of course looking is very helpful for this enquiry but is there some feeling that something more must be seen, or that there's a need to keep looking or else the insight might disappear? Please do let me know if there's any thought like this, however slight?
I know that it cannot get lost. I also know that it is okay when it is subtle. Still I thought seeing would become „stronger“ (less subtle) with some more looking. I also read that in the beginning it's back and forth for some time? (Even for years?!) I guess it happens the way it happens?

Best wishes

Sabine

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Sabine
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Re: Inquiry

Postby Sabine » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:47 am

Also seeing no self is just the first step, right?

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Sabine
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Re: Inquiry

Postby Sabine » Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:44 pm

Hello Jon

So really I need you to tell me if there are any doubts about no self? Are there any remaining doubts that no self has been seen? . If there are any now would be a good time to mention them.
No, there are no doubts about no self.

Can you say with a big fat "Yes" that the illusion of self is seen , beyond doubt?
Yes


Best wishes

Sabine

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JonathanR
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Re: Inquiry

Postby JonathanR » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:00 am

Hello Sabine
. I know that it cannot get lost. I also know that it is okay when it is subtle. Still I thought seeing would become „stronger“ (less subtle) with some more looking. I also read that in the beginning it's back and forth for some time? (Even for years?!) I guess it happens the way it happens?
How we think or how we thought no self should feel or look is always to do with expectation and conceptualisation. Perhaps this is it's very subtlety? That it is never what was imagined.

Yes, hearsay has it that it can be back and forth at the beginning (etc) and to be honest quite a few people do go through some kind of yo-yoing, where it can seem, for a while, that no self was 'nonsense' ...until that gives way again to 'seeing'.
. Also seeing no self is just the first step, right?
So some people say. I'd never say 'just the first step' though. But in terms of it being like a beginning , yes.


Well now that you can clearly say that no self is seen I have some questions for you. There are six of these and you can answer them in one go or split them into manageable chunks as is convenient.

Once you've answered them we can look together at what you have written. Is that ok?


With very best wishes

Jon



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for?

6) Anything to add?

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JonathanR
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Re: Inquiry

Postby JonathanR » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:00 am

Hello Sabine
. I know that it cannot get lost. I also know that it is okay when it is subtle. Still I thought seeing would become „stronger“ (less subtle) with some more looking. I also read that in the beginning it's back and forth for some time? (Even for years?!) I guess it happens the way it happens?
How we think or how we thought no self should feel or look is always to do with expectation and conceptualisation. Perhaps this is it's very subtlety? That it is never what was imagined.

Yes, hearsay has it that it can be back and forth at the beginning (etc) and to be honest quite a few people do go through some kind of yo-yoing, where it can seem, for a while, that no self was 'nonsense' ...until that gives way again to 'seeing'.
. Also seeing no self is just the first step, right?
So some people say. I'd never say 'just the first step' though. But in terms of it being like a beginning , yes.


Well now that you can clearly say that no self is seen I have some questions for you. There are six of these and you can answer them in one go or split them into manageable chunks as is convenient.

Once you've answered them we can look together at what you have written. Is that ok?


With very best wishes

Jon



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for?

6) Anything to add?

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Sabine
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Re: Inquiry

Postby Sabine » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:52 am

Hello Jon

How we think or how we thought no self should feel or look is always to do with expectation and conceptualisation. Perhaps this is it's very subtlety? That it is never what was imagined.
Yes, it is never what was imagined.

Yes, hearsay has it that it can be back and forth at the beginning (etc) and to be honest quite a few people do go through some kind of yo-yoing, where it can seem, for a while, that no self was 'nonsense' ...until that gives way again to 'seeing'.
Good to know.

Well now that you can clearly say that no self is seen I have some questions for you. There are six of these and you can answer them in one go or split them into manageable chunks as is convenient.
There are no doubts about no self.
But there are thoughts of doubt like „Is this it? Am I fooling myself?“.
At the same time there are thoughts of trust like „I was drawn to LU, there was a glimpse, there was a shift, even if it was a subtle, and things will unfold.“.



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is not, never was, never will be.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of a separate self is the identification with thoughts, feelings and the body.
I guess this identification starts at a very young age, as a baby or a toddler, being surrounded by people who are trapped in this identification themselves and therefore reinforcing the illusion of a seperate self within the child.
The illusion af a separate self seems to start with the thought „I“. It seems to be just a bunch of thoughts, connected with the thought „I“, and then added to any experience, thought or feeling. When these thoughts are believed, then the illusion of a separate self who experiences, observes, acts and is trying to control its own life, is built.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
When it was seen cleary during a glimpse it was like the „I“ vanishing. There was a kind of empty space. Now it is more like the constant sense of a separate self is gone. It is subtle but still different somehow.
Before there was this constant sense of a separate self, being involved or caught up in thoughts and all the stories.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Reading Gateless Gatecrashers again, not believing but looking, keep looking.


5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
There is no one who takes a decision. It just happens.
The decision to answer these questions right now just happened.
The decision to call someone just happens.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.
There is no one who has an intention. It just happens.
The intention to travel to Amsterdam next May and to book a flight just happened.
The intention to buy new shoes just happens.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.
There is no one to claim free will. Life just happens.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.
There is no one who chooses. Choosing just happens.
Choosing to eat one thing or something else just happens.
Choosing to walk this way or another way just happens.

Describe control & give examples from experience.
There is no one who controls life. Life just happens.
There is no one who controls the movement of this body.
There is no one who controls what thoughts come up.

What makes things happen? How does it work?
Things just happen. It is unknown how it works.

What are you responsible for?
There is no one who is responsible.
Yet there is responsible or irresponsible behavior.
Being at work in time just happens.
Being late at work just happens.

6) Anything to add?

Best wishes

Sabine

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JonathanR
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Re: Inquiry

Postby JonathanR » Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:34 am

Hi Sabine

Thanks for all your answers!
. There are no doubts about no self.
But there are thoughts of doubt like „Is this it? Am I fooling myself?“.
At the same time there are thoughts of trust like „I was drawn to LU, there was a glimpse, there was a shift, even if it was a subtle, and things will unfold.“
It's good that there are no doubts about no self. Its perfectly possible to experience the sorts of thoughts you mention "is this it" and "Am I fooling myself" ?

"is this it"? sounds like a slight hangover, an expectation of something more dramatic, a more obvious sign or experience of "no self"? It may help to notice the present moment and to ask if there is something lacking or wrong about what's happening right now?

"Am I fooling myself" begs the question as to whether there is even a self to fool? This kind of doubt may melt away gradually, if not quickly, as it is seen again and again that there is no self.

Let me know how you feel about what I have written?.

I'd also like to invite other guides to look at your thread if that's ok?

All the best.
Jon

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Sabine
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Re: Inquiry

Postby Sabine » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:49 pm

Hello Jon


"is this it"? sounds like a slight hangover, an expectation of something more dramatic, a more obvious sign or experience of "no self"? It may help to notice the present moment and to ask if there is something lacking or wrong about what's happening right now?
No, there is nothing lacking or wrong about what's happening right now.


"Am I fooling myself" begs the question as to whether there is even a self to fool? This kind of doubt may melt away gradually, if not quickly, as it is seen again and again that there is no self.
No, there is no self to fool.


Let me know how you feel about what I have written?.
I was aware of these aspects of the mentioned thoughts, still felt like mentioning them. Your answers and suggestions are helpful and clarifying.

I'd also like to invite other guides to look at your thread if that's ok?
Sure. I would like to thank you very much for your guidance and taking the time. It's deeply appreciated. Very valuable work for so many seekers from around the world!


All the best

Sabine

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JonathanR
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Re: Inquiry

Postby JonathanR » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:34 pm

Thank you very much Sabine

The guides did not have further questions for you. This means that your thread will move to the Archive section of this forum.

I will drop you an email with a few more details and you will receive one from an LU admin too.

With my very best wishes.

Jon


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