(Finally) Looking into community while doing fetter work!

[eskyen]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I started my work with Nonduality this past year, but perhaps it began years before that with unintentional self-inquiry, meditation, and therapy. A month ago, I had a 'shift' which has slowly matured. I can differentiate thoughts/selfing from the spacious awareness but am still in the maturing phase where reactions have not been seen through.

What are you looking for at LU?
Community and a guide to discuss these topics with. I've always been hesitant to get into sanghas that focused on dogmatic teachings. Although I've dabbled in a fair share, I find there is so much more in theory to practice-- where the 'answers' lie in one's own experience. I was also skeptical of fetter work because I didn't want to map my progress. But, funnily enough, that was another mind-identification. Fetter work has cleared up so much 'stickiness' that sneaked past me and knowing its non-linear mapping is also useful. I'm dedicated to questioning all of my beliefs so that I don't miss anything. I am not here to choose convenience. I am prepared to experience shadows, discomfort, death of self, and everything in between.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
For a long time, I was resistant to joining a group for fear of discussing too much and reifying concepts/identifications. There was also this narrative that if I worked with other people, it would not be 'most natural'. For a brief period, I sought a teacher but couldn't find one in my local community. It was eventually made clear that this mindset fueled a spiritual identity that I didn’t even know was there until I started examining the fetters to clearly describe my conditionings (a big one being 'doubt'). A guide is invaluable as I have blind spots that I cannot see myself. Additionally, although much of the work is individual, I would like to maintain my communal practice with a guide since I will be abroad for service for two years, with a low chance of finding such a community. Until now I have not discussed my experiences with friends or family, and if I talk with a guide, it would be beneficial as a new, unexplored way of working with identification.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've realized that this path was never 'spiritual' and when I used to make it that way, it only fueled a spiritual ego. Since 2021, I began meditation (in Burmese Theravada) as a coping method but it never clicked well with me. Simultaneously, I was doing everything I could conventionally to "better myself"-- eating the right diet, applying the right mindful tactics, journaling, therapy etc. This whole time, I was also self-inquiring, but moreso in a conceptual way. Everything I did still led to 'suffering' despite shifting my mindset to 'there is always a lesson in suffering'. I was still following the carrot on the stick and running in circles. But there was a small voice that told me there's more to this, keep going! And thank god that it didn't feel "enough"! I began listening to talks by Adyashanti and Angelo Dillulo who opened me to the world of nonduality and went through all of the conceptualizing, spiritual identifying, seeking (for an elusive 'awakening'), and surrendering everything. Not this, not that. Then, there was an ordinary shift.
Since my shift, I've noticed a pattern of cycling two steps forward, and then one step back. Although I know it's not a case of "I got it, I lost it", I find difficulty in trusting the unknown at times. And the mind knows that. I tell myself I'll get through it, but I know it's another narrative that I follow to avoid facing the discomforts of the unknown. I also am finding myself identifying with the gap. When I notice thoughts arise, it's immediately jumping (down) into the body, which seems like another conditioning. That's okay, but it can feel too manufactured at times. The self-inquiry practice and one-pointed approach are also worked alongside The Awakening Curriculum and Simply Always Awake talks.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[vinceschubert]

Hi eskyen, i will guide you. Let's get to it..
Quote (here is a tutorial on how to do that - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660) every question, then answer straight after that.

What are you looking for at LU?
Community and a guide to discuss these topics with. I've always been hesitant to get into sanghas that focused on dogmatic teachings. Although I've dabbled in a fair share, I find there is so much more in theory to practice-- where the 'answers' lie in one's own experience. I was also skeptical of fetter work because I didn't want to map my progress. But, funnily enough, that was another mind-identification. Fetter work has cleared up so much 'stickiness' that sneaked past me and knowing its non-linear mapping is also useful. I'm dedicated to questioning all of my beliefs so that I don't miss anything. I am not here to choose convenience. I am prepared to experience shadows, discomfort, death of self, and everything in between.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
For a long time, I was resistant to joining a group for fear of discussing too much and reifying concepts/identifications. There was also this narrative that if I worked with other people, it would not be 'most natural'. For a brief period, I sought a teacher but couldn't find one in my local community. It was eventually made clear that this mindset fueled a spiritual identity that I didn’t even know was there until I started examining the fetters to clearly describe my conditionings (a big one being 'doubt'). A guide is invaluable as I have blind spots that I cannot see myself. Additionally, although much of the work is individual, I would like to maintain my communal practice with a guide since I will be abroad for service for two years, with a low chance of finding such a community. Until now I have not discussed my experiences with friends or family, and if I talk with a guide, it would be beneficial as a new, unexplored way of working with identification.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've realized that this path was never 'spiritual' and when I used to make it that way, it only fueled a spiritual ego. Since 2021, I began meditation (in Burmese Theravada) as a coping method but it never clicked well with me. Simultaneously, I was doing everything I could conventionally to "better myself"-- eating the right diet, applying the right mindful tactics, journaling, therapy etc. This whole time, I was also self-inquiring, but moreso in a conceptual way. Everything I did still led to 'suffering' despite shifting my mindset to 'there is always a lesson in suffering'. I was still following the carrot on the stick and running in circles. But there was a small voice that told me there's more to this, keep going! And thank god that it didn't feel "enough"! I began listening to talks by Adyashanti and Angelo Dillulo who opened me to the world of nonduality and went through all of the conceptualizing, spiritual identifying, seeking (for an elusive 'awakening'), and surrendering everything. Not this, not that. Then, there was an ordinary shift.
Since my shift, I've noticed a pattern of cycling two steps forward, and then one step back. Although I know it's not a case of "I got it, I lost it", I find difficulty in trusting the unknown at times. And the mind knows that. I tell myself I'll get through it, but I know it's another narrative that I follow to avoid facing the discomforts of the unknown. I also am finding myself identifying with the gap. When I notice thoughts arise, it's immediately jumping (down) into the body, which seems like another conditioning. That's okay, but it can feel too manufactured at times. The self-inquiry practice and one-pointed approach are also worked alongside The Awakening Curriculum and Simply Always Awake talks.

You’ve already burned through so many traps—the need for conceptual understanding, seeking blissful states, fear of joining others, the delusion of a spiritual path itself. That clarity is rare. You’ve seen the shadow that even doubt of doubt is just another ghost in the machine.

Let’s get precise now.

Right here, right now: Is there anything—any sense, thought, or perception—that proves the existence of a separate ‘you’ experiencing this moment?

Look now. Don't think. Look.

Where is this self that is resisting the unknown?
Where is the "you" that is managing discomfort, dropping into the body, navigating “shadow”?

Isn’t that just thought pretending to be a navigator?

If you say “but something still feels like me”—pause. What is that feeling? Drop the label. Is it shape? Color? Location? Can it even be held?

If not, what are you calling "me"?

---

You say: “I’m dedicated to questioning all of my beliefs so I don’t miss anything.” Then let’s test that.

Right now, is there any actual doer choosing to read this sentence?

Pause. Scan. Not conceptually—check the moment. Is reading happening to someone? Or is reading just... happening?

If there’s no one controlling this, what’s left of the idea of self?

---

You also said: “I'm finding myself identifying with the gap.” Beautiful. The mind is trying to own emptiness. That’s how desperate it is. Even silence becomes "mine."

Can you see that? That even the sense of “just being” gets hijacked as a spiritual position?

Strip that. Strip even “presence.” What remains before identification?

Not what you think remains. What is here?

---

You’ve said you’re not here to choose convenience. Then here’s a real invitation:

Describe right now in raw sensory language—no self-referential story, no abstraction. Only what is actually happening, minus the interpretive filter.

Then tell me:
Where is "you"?
Where is awakening?
Where is the process?

Or has it always been this—this ungraspable, unlocatable mystery pretending to be a “path”?

You’re ready. Let’s kill the seeker, completely. Right here.

vince