It's Time

[HereNow]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have been reading about non-duality and watching YouTube videos about it for several years. My intellectual understanding of what it is, is thorough, and I realize that that doesn't matter at all. I cannot find a tangible separate self when I look for it. Yet still there remains a sense of separation. It's time to drop that once and for all.

What are you looking for at LU?
I like to imagine that there is some little nuanced way of looking at this that I have not yet discovered, and that interacting with a guide will finally point out the last subtle, obstructing belief that continues to obscure the true nature of reality without a sense of separate self. I'd like to finally wake all the way up to living truth, unfiltered reality...

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect the guide to intuitively point my attention inward at the nature of true self. I imagine that there will be an energetic transmission contained in the guide's pointings that transcends the meaning of the words being spoken. I expect the guided conversation to lead me to where I'm longing to go - to walk the distanceless path to where I already am. To finally see the truth of existence in the absence of all filters of thought and belief.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been to several Tantra retreats and trainings, I have a daily meditation practice within which self inquiry is primary. I have been to Angelo Dilullo's 7 day silent retreat in NC last year. I'm attending an "Embodied Authentic Relating" training next week...

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[warissem]

Hi

I am glad to help you see through the illusion of a separate self. I see that you are familiar with the inquiry. it is good to begin with.

There are some obstacles on the road which are the expectations or you actual understanding of being free or liberated. It is the first thing we need to see here before going through the process.

In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Best for you

[HereNow]

How will life change?

I do not imagine that life will change. I imagine that my perception of life will change. I imagine that I will finally see through the energetic filters of thought and belief that currently stand in the way of clear seeing of reality as it is. At present, thoughts still seem to have the ability to draw my attention into them. When my attention leaves my five senses and identifies with thought, I live in a mind created world and I suffer as a result. When my attention returns to the present moment awareness of sensory input, the suffering abates. Once this process is seen through, I imagine I will be able to abide in presence as a default mode, rather than abiding in the mind created world of thoughts.

How will you change?

I don not imagine that "I" will change. I imagine that the way in which I experience "life" will change. I imagine my experience of the world will no longer be filtered through my ideas about it. I tell myself that in this unfiltered experience of timeless reality, "mind created suffering" will no longer be a thing here.

What will be different?

The difference will be that my perception of "reality" will no longer be filtered through the lens of past conditioning. My perception of "what is" will be simply that. I tell myself that the fragrance of this new way of filterless perception will be peace. Peace as a default experience instead of nearly constant anxiety.

What is missing?

Nothing is missing. Except perhaps a habit pattern of remaining present in the five senses instead of following and identifying with thoughts and beliefs.

[warissem]

Hi

Once this process is seen through, I imagine I will be able to abide in presence as a default mode, rather than abiding in the mind created world of thoughts.

This is an expectations and all expectations are thought stories. Just leave this expectation aside and just be curious of what is going on.

I don not imagine that "I" will change. I imagine that the way in which I experience "life" will change. I imagine my experience of the world will no longer be filtered through my ideas about it. I tell myself that in this unfiltered experience of timeless reality, "mind created suffering" will no longer be a thing here.

On this forum, you will see through the illusion of a separate self. We don’t know what will happen, it changes from one folk to another.

The difference will be that my perception of "reality" will no longer be filtered through the lens of past conditioning. My perception of "what is" will be simply that. I tell myself that the fragrance of this new way of filterless perception will be peace. Peace as a default experience instead of nearly constant anxiety.

It is too much expecting : what is given here is to see through the illusion of a separate self. There is no other default mode to offer. Many teachers make difference between awakening and realization (or actualization). Awakening is instant, realization takes time and this is due to conditioning, old beliefs, tendencies. Anyway, anything can happen during the dialog.

Nothing is missing. Except perhaps a habit pattern of remaining present in the five senses instead of following and identifying with thoughts and beliefs

Just be knowingly aware is the best advice I give. Let go all the knowing of the past and the expectations of the future. The best place to be is “not knowing”.

After having clarified about expectations, I invite you to look at direct experience and let aside thoughts. Here we are :

When I ask a question, look at what is pointed to. See the answer then write it here. An example :

What is the color of the sky right now?
You can write the answer by guessing it through the last time you have seen the sky
OR
You get up, LOOK AT the sky, SEE its color and write the answer (what is seen).
This last way of doing is called Direct experience.

Direct experience : seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, touching or sensations. Thoughts and concepts are used only to communicate.

Let me know if this way of looking at direct experience is clear for you. If not I will give other examples.

Best for you

[HereNow]

Let me know if this way of looking at direct experience is clear for you. If not I will give other examples.

Yes. It is clear. I endeavor to just look directly at experiences without overlaying a mind story, but frequently fail at this and end up back in thoughts again.

[warissem]

Good evening

Yes. It is clear. I endeavor to just look directly at experiences without overlaying a mind story, but frequently fail at this and end up back in thoughts again.

Yes, there is falling in thoughts but there is awareness of that.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Waiting for your insights

[HereNow]

Thank you for suggesting this exercise. I made a voice recording of those questions and inserted a 30 second pause after each question. I played the recording while I meditated. I did this several times to really look at and apply each question. Here are my findings:

Where are they coming from and going to?

I could not locate from where they came or to where they went. They seemed to spring into my awareness from nowhere.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I did not do anything to make thoughts appear. They just seem to constantly arise in spontaneous fashion.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No. Once the thought has appeared of its seeming own volition, there is nothing I could have done to change that thought.

Can you predict your next thought?

Normally no. But as an experiment, after listening to this question, I intentionally chose to think about wading in the beautiful lagoon that surrounds Bora Bora in the south Pacific. At first glance, it appeared that "I" chose to have that thought and then it appeared. But then I thought, 'who chose to think about Bora Bora? Did I decide to decide?' Then it was clear that even that sequence of thoughts just popped up out of nowhere. The additional thought that "I" decided to think about Bora Bora was just an overlay that came instantly afterwards that made it seem like "I" decided to think about Bora Bora. So my final answer to this question is, no, I can't predict my next thought. It just sometimes seems like I can because of other thoughts that are believed to be true... no thoughts are ever true...

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No, there is no presentation of a range of thoughts from which I choose. For a short time, I can seem to be able to think pleasant thoughts, like the Bora Bora example above, but it is clear to me now that those thoughts only sprang forth in response to the question that was asked right beforehand. If a different question had been asked, then a different thought would have emerged in response to that different cause. Every thought seems to be "caused" by some other thought that occurred immediately preceding it. I cannot find the "I" who is deciding any of this. It is all just happening spontaneously, for no apparent reason with no apparent purpose, eternally, ever changing, ever present, never really "here", never really "now", ungraspable, unknowable by the thinking mind. However, I am aware of the powerful illusion of this seemingly separate "I" that is thinking and deciding and navigating through this seemingly hostile world. Even though I intellectually know that "I" is illusory in nature, I still feel strongly identified with it most of the time. How can I be aware that I am not that, yet still suffer as if I am?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Not to keep repeating the same answer, but no, I can't choose not to have painful thoughts. After hearing this question, I can seem to switch my painful thoughts to pleasant ones, but only because of my thoughts about this question. Had this question not been presented to me, then my negative thoughts would not have been interrupted and would likely have continued. There is no "I" deciding whether to have positive or negative thoughts, every thought is arising in response to whatever happened right before it that "caused" it. It is all just spontaneously occurring. Yet I still feel like "I" am the one sitting here and watching it all unfold. I do not have the sense of "being" the entirety of the unfolding like I hear others report after awakening. After typing that sentence, a feeling of frustration arose at "my" apparent lack of "enlightenment". This is all so ridiculous!

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No. See above explanations.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

When I do the exercise in which I ask myself the question, "I wonder what my next thought will be?", it does appear that in the few seconds immediately following that inquiry, thoughts do not seem to arise. So it does appear that it is possible to prevent thoughts from appearing for a few brief seconds. Whenever I ask myself this question and then really focus my attention on looking for the nature of the next thought, no thought appears, and there is a sense of equanimity that fills that space. Of course this empty space is inevitably always filled with the next thought. But there is still no "I" causing this brief space of equanimity to occur. That brief space of equanimity occurred in response to the confluence of events that preceded it and thereby "caused" it to occur. I still can't find a way to directly experience the nature of this "I" that I still apparently think that I am. How insanely ridiculous is it that I can clearly see that there is no separate "I", yet still continue to operate in the world as if there is. What has to happen for that sense of "I" to finally collapse all the way and never return? My answer to that so far has been to just find a way to keep my attention in the reality that is coming in through my five senses, rather than off in my thoughts about whatever is 'happening'. I need to develop the skill of recognizing thoughts as not reality and not believing that they are real. So far, no luck with that. I'm still apparently trapped in the world of thought, which is the only place suffering can occur. It does not seem to occur whenever my attention is in the here and now of reality.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

These words that you have just written are causing me to re-look at some of what I said above. I was saying that one thought does take content from another thought. That the content of one thought does seem to shape the nature of the next thought. But that statement is just another thought. Is it true? Sometimes it does seem that way, but other times the thoughts do seem totally random from my perspective. I think I will meditate on this question some more.

[warissem]

Hi

It is a good idea to register the questions and give time to LOOK AT them. You have done good observations about thoughts and deepened the investigation : the example of Bora Bora. I read all your answers and I give some comments and pointers which I wish will help.

I could not locate from where they came or to where they went. They seemed to spring into my awareness from nowhere

.
Yes, it is awareness but not yours. There is no you to own something.

I cannot find the "I" who is deciding any of this. It is all just happening spontaneously, for no apparent reason with no apparent purpose, eternally, ever changing, ever present, never really "here", never really "now", ungraspable, unknowable by the thinking mind.

Yes, good. How do you feel to see this?
Is there definitely a thinker?

However, I am aware of the powerful illusion of this seemingly separate "I" that is thinking and deciding and navigating through this seemingly hostile world.

Good questions. Two “I” are used here : the first “I” which is aware of the illusion; the second “I” is separate, then the illusion itself. You can see directly where the confusion resides. Look at these “I”s with curiosity and write back their descriptions.

Even though I intellectually know that "I" is illusory in nature, I still feel strongly identified with it most of the time.

Do you see what is identified with what? Can you be more explicit, give examples.

How can I be aware that I am not that, yet still suffer as if I am?

Yes there is awareness of all what is here now. In direct experience there are colors and shapes, sounds, smells, tastes and sensations. There are thoughts about all of this in the present, the past and the future. After having read this, what is “that” which you are not : a thought, a sensation, a sight, a sound, a smell, a taste? LOOK before giving an answer.
What is suffering in your own words?

It is all just spontaneously occurring. Yet I still feel like "I" am the one sitting here and watching it all unfold.
Do you mean that the one sitting here is the body?

If it is so, can the body know something? Is the body aware?
If you don’t mean the body, what is this watching it all unfold? LOOK before giving the answer.

I do not have the sense of "being" the entirety of the unfolding like I hear others report after awakening. After typing that sentence, a feeling of frustration arose at "my" apparent lack of "enlightenment". This is all so ridiculous!

Awareness is already whole and complete. The reflection above is due to the identification with the body. There is no you to lack enlightenment or anything else.

When I do the exercise in which I ask myself the question, "I wonder what my next thought will be?", it does appear that in the few seconds immediately following that inquiry, thoughts do not seem to arise.

Yes, great observation : now instead of looking at the thoughts, look at “that” which is looking. Is there “someone” looking? Is there an I, a you looking or looking is just happening?

Whenever I ask myself this question and then really focus my attention on looking for the nature of the next thought, no thought appears, and there is a sense of equanimity that fills that space.

Yes, is this equanimity different from you? Is there awareness separate from this sense of equanimity?

How insanely ridiculous is it that I can clearly see that there is no separate "I", yet still continue to operate in the world as if there is.

There is operating in the world but no you to do it. We will look at the sense of this separate “I” in due time during our dialog.

These words that you have just written are causing me to re-look at some of what I said above. I was saying that one thought does take content from another thought. That the content of one thought does seem to shape the nature of the next thought. But that statement is just another thought. Is it true? Sometimes it does seem that way, but other times the thoughts do seem totally random from my perspective. I think I will meditate on this question some more.
See that even the “ordering of thoughts” is just another thought.

See that thoughts have no intelligence and no authority. They just are like clouds in the sky.

A lot of questions for today. take time to LOOK AT the pointers.

Waiting for your insights

[HereNow]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I wanted to really marinate in this for a few days and then do a deep dive into answering these questions from the heart rather than from the mind... whatever that means ;). It turned out to be lots and lots of words, none of which are necessary, except that they are until they're not ;)

I cannot find the "I" who is deciding any of this. It is all just happening spontaneously, for no apparent reason with no apparent purpose, eternally, ever changing, ever present, never really "here", never really "now", ungraspable, unknowable by the thinking mind. Yes, good. How do you feel to see this?
Is there definitely a thinker?

As I re-read what I wrote, it is apparent that it is still just an intellectual belief. When I investigate with curiosity the nature of direct experience, I can clearly see that it is all just happening. Then my attention sometimes turns to look at the nature of the one who is apparently perceiving sights, sounds, sensations... and there does seem to be an "I" that is perceiving from this focalized perspective of this seemingly separate body that needs to eat, drink, feel safe, breed... I intellectually realize that my body (this biological organism) is just part of the entire Earth and Universe, inseparable by nature, just as a wave cannot be separated from the Ocean, but only momentarily seem to be separate. I can clearly know that "I" am not this body. Who then is the one who looks through these eyes? That is the apparent grand mystery to which no answer can be satisfactory. The spiritual path of self inquiry is seems to be the process of continuing to ask this question what is the nature of "I"? Who am "I"?

Sometimes when I am deeply inquiring and focusing all of my attention into this question, I begin to sense that "I" am literally everything and simultaneously also the empty space within which "everything" is allowed to unfold. There is nothing apart from "me". I am truly truly alone. "I" seem to have created this dance of the 10,000 distractions to keep me from feeling this utter aloneness. But I then also realize that that is just another story from the mind to try to explain that which can never be explained. So I will just keep looking into the mystery until this body returns to the dirt from whence it came.

However, I am aware of the powerful illusion of this seemingly separate "I" that is thinking and deciding and navigating through this seemingly hostile world. Good questions. Two “I” are used here : the first “I” which is aware of the illusion; the second “I” is separate, then the illusion itself. You can see directly where the confusion resides. Look at these “I”s with curiosity and write back their descriptions.

The first "I" is simply awareness itself, the quality of I-am-ness would be another way to try to express it. The second "I" is nothing more than an ephemeral energetic apparition in thought. But somehow, when my attention is drawn into this thought of "I", then "identification" happens and the first "I" appears to forget its own true nature and "believes" itself to be this fragile temporary fearful separate "person" who must be defended against the ever attacking outside world. And then the suffering begins, and never stops for more than 5 minutes until some grace causes me to remember my true nature as the "one" the "unity" the "true self" "God" "the immortal" "the unborn and undying nature of all that is..." or whatever other moniker you like. The grand mystery to the one who is writing this message is, "how the fuck can I still believe myself into "existence" when I know all of this?" I am still subject to daily (often intense) mind-created suffering. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

I don't know how it is possible, or why it is the case, so my only option is to keep inquiring and looking at direct sensory input in the here and now and hope for the best.

Even though I intellectually know that "I" is illusory in nature, I still feel strongly identified with it most of the time.
Do you see what is identified with what? Can you be more explicit, give examples.

Yes, the big "I" is identified with the ephemeral energetic apparition in thought (the little "I"). I can only assume that when this body finally dies, the identification is no longer possible since there is no longer a body to identify with and I will return to the deep knowing of my true nature as "all that is". So what then is the point of the next 40 years of my life? I have brief moments when I am free from suffering. Anything that quiets the mind causes this sense of relief. For decades I have been on a spiritual path that seems to have the goal of freedom from suffering through liberation from identification with the "personal sense of separate self". I am aware that the one who seems to have this goal is never going to be liberated. He will be the one from whom the true self is liberated. Why then is he even here? What is the point of his existence other than to be the suffering self from whom liberation is required and inevitable? I can feel my mind trying desperately to find some answer that will bring an end to this seemingly endless suffering. And I know that an answer like that is not possible. So again, I return to the simple practice of returning over and over and over again to the felt sense of sensory bodily awareness in the here and now. Every now and then, that practice yields a momentary relief from the suffering and all is seen to be perfectly OK as it is... no matter what is happening. But then, the seemingly inevitable return to mind identification and belief in story and the resultant suffering. I AM SOOOO FUCKING SICK OF THIS SAMSARA!

How can I be aware that I am not that, yet still suffer as if I am? Yes there is awareness of all that is here now. In direct experience there are colors and shapes, sounds, smells, tastes and sensations. There are thoughts about all of this in the present, the past and the future. After having read this, what is “that” which you are not : a thought, a sensation, a sight, a sound, a smell, a taste? LOOK before giving an answer.
What is suffering in your own words?

"That" which I am not is simply pure, content-less awareness. That magical, ineffable field within which all of this happens. Nothing that happens within this field can ever alter the field itself in any way. Just as the movie that is projected onto a blank screen does not alter the screen itself no matter how dynamic the images are that are projected onto it. The awareness itself has no discernible qualities that could be found in any of the five senses. The five senses can only appear due to the presence of the field itself. What is the nature of this field? That is the heart of "self-inquiry" practice. To investigate the nature of "this-ness". My seeker is just about worn out.

As for my own current definition of suffering; suffering is aftermath of the collision between desire and reality. This seemingly separate energetic entity (little "I") seems to want things to be different than they already are. It thinks that by using the psychological tools of judgement, resistance and attachment, it can change the nature of reality to some other form or set of circumstances within which it can then finally be permanently happy. So it then attempts millions of iterations of this process of using force of will to shape external circumstances to fit its own desires. Every now and then it seems to achieve this, but then feels only 5 minutes of relief from suffering, only to move on to the next desire that must be fulfilled.

Why do I continue to chase happiness in the external world where it clearly cannot be found? Rupert Spira offers an explanation that resonates as true to me. He says that the happiness and elation we feel when we "get what we want" is real. But we misconstrue the reason for the happiness and wrongly ascribe its cause to the event, person or object that we believe to be the cause of it. He says that what is actually occurring is that in the moments right after we get what we want, we are in a state of desirelessness, and in that absence of desiring things to be different than they are, our natural energetic state of happiness can be felt. As soon as the next desire enters our mind, that natural state of causeless happiness is once again obscured and suffering returns. He suggests that if we could somehow recognize this phenomenon on a deep level, we would then be able to abide in our natural state of happiness and well-being no matter how the outside circumstances appear. This explanation feels to me to be rooted in some self-evident truth, and so I have now formulated an intellectual belief around it. Is this belief helpful? I don't know yet. So far, not really, since I still suffer with the "I'm not enlightened yet" belief. This all sounds so ridiculous when I have to say it out loud to someone else.

It is all just spontaneously occurring. Yet I still feel like "I" am the one sitting here and watching it all unfold.
Do you mean that the one sitting here is the body? If it is so, can the body know something? Is the body aware?
If you don’t mean the body, what is this watching it all unfold? LOOK before giving the answer.

I definitely don't mean that the one sitting here is the body. The body is just another integral part of the one whole energy that is unfolding everywhere in the Cosmos right now at this very moment. It is not separate and cannot "think" for "itself". The body receives stimuli in the form of sensory input to the brain, and the brain (being the interface between physical form and formless energy) then interprets those messages and makes a story out of "what is happening". Awareness somehow then mistakes that story for reality and loses itself in that story, believing it to be real, regardless of what is actually happening to the body. As to what is watching it all unfold, well, that is the $64,000 question isn't it? If I could give you the answer to that, then you and I would never have entered into this dialog. Having said that, I do have moments when I can see from the higher-self perspective, and from that broader perspective I have a sense that all there is is awareness. I can see the ephemeral energetic nature of the temporary appearance of this apparently separate self. When I am able to dis-identify with this sense of self, awareness remains. Awareness does not need "I", but "I" needs awareness to "exist". Which of course brings me back to the ever repeating question in my mind, "how can I re-identify with that false sense of self when I absolutely know for sure that it is not me?" That smaller self is who is typing this right now.

I do not have the sense of "being" the entirety of the unfolding like I hear others report after awakening. After typing that sentence, a feeling of frustration arose at "my" apparent lack of "enlightenment". This is all so ridiculous! Awareness is already whole and complete. The reflection above is due to the identification with the body. There is no you to lack enlightenment or anything else.

Yes, I know this. So I guess all I have to do is stop asking questions and just be.

When I do the exercise in which I ask myself the question, "I wonder what my next thought will be?", it does appear that in the few seconds immediately following that inquiry, thoughts do not seem to arise.Yes, great observation : now instead of looking at the thoughts, look at “that” which is looking. Is there “someone” looking? Is there an I, a you looking or looking is just happening?

It feels like there is an "I" that asks that question, "I wonder what my next thought will be". But then after I ask it, there is just looking. Awareness looking at itself looking. So then I guess the question just arose out of nothingness, not asked by anyone. I did not decide to ask it, it just asked itself and then looked at itself looking? The grace of that question asking itself in that exact moment caused this separate sense of "self" to look at its own nature rather than looking at the content of thoughts. And in that looking, there was the beginnings of a realization that I am not who I've always taken myself to be. But then the momentum of that ephemeral energetic apparition of "little self" seems to have a capacity to reassert itself as the believed separate self again. Then upon realizing this, frustration arises with force and fury, and suffering once again ensues.

Whenever I ask myself this question and then really focus my attention on looking for the nature of the next thought, no thought appears, and there is a sense of equanimity that fills that space.Yes, is this equanimity different from you? Is there awareness separate from this sense of equanimity?

No, it is not different or separate from the whole which is me. Equanimity just seems to be the fragrance or intrinsic characteristic of pure awareness. The way my mind tries to then quantify or put in a box or explain this phenomena in 3-D reality is to say that it seems as though the entirety of the Cosmos exists only inside my mind. Without my awareness, the Cosmos itself would simply not exist. My awareness of it is a crucial and inextricable catalyst for the existence of everything that appears in time and space. Yet there is a knowing that even this is just another story - another attempt to control the nature of things by offering an "explanation" of what is happening and why. It seems the ego is extremely unwilling to let go all the way and admit that literally nothing is within its control. It is completely vulnerable to circumstance. I have another belief that if I (the ego) could really and truly just let go all the way and fall into uncertainty, I would then finally truly be free. But even though I know that, that freedom still somehow seems to elude me - probably only because of the belief in that sentence I just wrote - "it still somehow seems to elude me"... that too is just another story. I see it! The mind will continue to create story after story. It will never stop. I just have to stop listening to and believing any of it and just keep looking at what is actually happening here and now.

How insanely ridiculous is it that I can clearly see that there is no separate "I", yet still continue to operate in the world as if there is.There is operating in the world but no you to do it. We will look at the sense of this separate “I” in due time during our dialog.

The "I" is seen through whenever I look in this manner. I will keep doing it. Perhaps it will become and easy habit and eventually my normal resting state.

See that even the “ordering of thoughts” is just another thought.See that thoughts have no intelligence and no authority. They just are like clouds in the sky. A lot of questions for today. take time to LOOK AT the pointers.

Everything I have ever thought to be real has just been random thoughts appearing within the illusion of space and time. None of it was ever real. None of it is real now. None of it will ever be real. It just seems to be from the perspective of separation. If the sense of "I" collapses, then there is no one to think about any of this or suffer it.

[warissem]

Hi

I read your long post. The answers are not given through DIRECT EXPERIENCE as I explained it in a previous post. Examples :
When I asked :
Describe the first "I" and the second "I",
What is awareness, what is suffering in your own words, etc, ...

You have given answers through the accumulated knowledge, from what you know. I am waiting answers through what you don't know, from what is NEW, from HERE NOW which is Direct experience.

Example : Question : what is suffering in your own words?
You gave a definition of suffering. Instead of this, just LOOK AT your suffering right now and SEE IT : is it a sensation, a color, a shape, a sound, a smell, a taste or only a thought (about suffering)? So simple, ALL WHAT IS here now, cannot be otherwise.
Do you SEE the simplicity of all that?

A training for you :

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

Best for you