Seeing True Nature

[Comorebe]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the feeling and belief that most of us have of being a centralised locus of control and agency and personhood is actually mistaken and illusory. That, more fundamentally, our source and essence is a groundless empty space or awareness in which everything appears (including our thoughts, feelings and sense of self) and that seeing this frees us

What are you looking for at LU?
I want help and guidance in being led to see this irrefutably for myself. I was started on this journey about 7/8 years ago when I was around 20/21 through reading / listening to certain things which pointed towards this and which resonated and also having an inexplicable experience of opening and momentary selflessness which felt incredibly joyful, vibrant, free but also, at the time, slightly too much and overwhelming. This experience closed back up and ever since I have been kind of obsessed with this and trying to find a way of leading myself back to that place and living from it. I have spent many years since then with this as the central interest of my life. I have continued to live a normal life, studying and working and leading a normal life with friends, family and relationships (and without anyone that really shares this same interest so always having it as a kind of private interest which I pursue in my own time). The last few years have been spent oscillating between confidence and doubt in the whole project and, as that initial experience, faded further back in time and memory it became increasingly difficult to hold on to its sense of reality and vividness. I have had moments and periods lasting days and weeks here and there which have felt somewhat like openings where I have felt more presence and vividness and that things have been more effortless and in flow but nothing like that original opening and, although the sense of a separate controlling self has been diminished or attenuated in those periods I don't think it is really seen through. However, I oscillate between that and periods in which I feel incredibly cramped, tightly wound and contracted into a sense of self, the feeling of separateness is very pronounced, the vividness and clarity of perception is dimmed, there is a lot of suffering and reactivity, and there are many self-referential thoughts. I have no doubt that what is being pointed to is true both from experiences which I have directly which have revealed that it is possible to live from a very different place and have a very different sense of one's existence in the world but also just from generally thinking about these things: I am convinced that it doesn't make any sense for there to be an individual, solid, continuous, central person inside the head, that this has to be an illusion, that there isn't anything like this in nature or any space for a mini-me to be existing inside the brain. However, this is not my ongoing, daily, lived and living experience. Generally it remains mostly a kind of intellectual understanding and belief (although also being grounded and supported in some fleeting direct experiential moments). However, there is nothing more that I want than converting this conviction into my daily reality, my lived and felt experience, and living from that place of openness, freedom, flow, clarity and vividness.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I understand that it will be a back-and-forth, question-and-answer relationship with a guide, with someone who has made this transition for themselves, who will be able to facilitate and guide an inquiry into my own present-moment, direct experience that will hopefully bear fruit in catalysing this recognition or insight.
From what I understand about Liberation Unleashed, both from the website and listening to the podcast, is that the conversation and exploration will be kept ruthlessly within the bounds of one's own experience, not drawing on things which I have learned or past experiences or future expectations, but just continuously redirecting the inquiry back to here and now and probing what is going on (guided and helped by the facilitator) and that this is the most effective way to prepare the way for the insight.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have had experiences with psychedelics which have definitely been compelling and very interesting from a 'spiritual' point of view and have pointed towards this kind of territory. One experience in particular seemed to really open the door in terms of my interest in this topic and seemed to contain a lot of the same themes. The 'opening' experience which I have previously referred to seemed to come out of basically no spiritual practice. Following on from my psychedelic experience I had developed an interest in these topics as it seemed to have opened up the possibility that there was more to be found. However, it remained on an curiosity level where I was just starting to listen to talks and read books on these kinds of topics. When the 'opening' happened, I was on holiday and I had been reading a spiritual book, but the holiday itself had also been incredibly relaxing and affirming (in the sun, on the beach, reconnecting with an old friend, having many authentic and unguarded conversations about things in our lives) and this may have been a kind of unintentional 'spiritual practice' which prepared the soil for the opening. For several years my 'spiritual practice' remained on this kind of level: listening to talks and reading books. The interest remained very alive and compelling however I never really made the jump to a committed 'spiritual practice'. I dabbled with Transcendental Meditation but gave that up pretty quickly, I had a couple of other brief abandoned attempts at meditation, but generally it was just this ongoing obsession and fascination which I would explore through listening to people speak and reading books. However, after several years of this without any changes or any tangible progress in my own experience, I decided I would have to put more of myself into this thing and adopt some kind of practice which might bring me closer to genuine insight. For the last 2/3 years I have had a daily meditation practice. I have been using Sam Harris' 'Waking Up' app to help get me into a meditation practice and used the meditation courses he has on there as well as the daily meditations which he offers. I also listened to all of the content on his app. I have also been on a few 10-day Goenka silent meditation retreats because I thought this may be the thing which takes me to the next level and enables a breakthrough. I have also continued to explore and discover different spiritual teachers offering different techniques (like self-inquiry) and have tried these. For the past 6 months to a year or so my practice has been a daily meditation (which doesn't follow any specific structure or style - its a kind of mix between open awareness, noting, following breath and self-inquiry) combined with an ongoing self-inquiry whenever I can remember to do it (e.g. 'Who am I? / What am I / What is this / Where am I etc.) and 'looking for my own head'.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[JonathanR]

Hello Comorebe,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed, My name is Jon. I’m happy to offer to point for you.

I’ve read your intro:

I have no doubt that what is being pointed to is true both from experiences which I have directly which have revealed that it is possible to live from a very different place and have a very different sense of one's existence in the world but also just from generally thinking about these things: I am convinced that it doesn't make any sense for there to be an individual, solid, continuous, central person inside the head, that this has to be an illusion, that there isn't anything like this in nature or any space for a mini-me to be existing inside the brain. However, this is not my ongoing, daily, lived and living experience.

Of course, we can work together towards an experiential shift that wouid leave no doubts as to whether there is a fixed, separate self or not. But please, now, list any and all expectations that you may currently hold about this? This is important. No matter how small or silly any of these expectations may seem,do list them all. This will help enormously in your inquiry.

What if we could just notice that nothing needs to happen? That is, nothing special, or, rather, nothing more special than what’s happening right now?

Does that resonate? Or does it have a hollow or disappointing ring to it?

Do you think OKAY! I GET IT! or does it bring out a bit if a shrug?

Should THE TRUTH somehow be more than just this, or are things quite perfect and complete already?

What would it take to have conviction, clarity that there is no separate self?

In a warm and friendly spirit

Jon