Ready & Willing

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kai2
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Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:42 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is, finally and truly, no one at the centre of experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
Assistance in seeing through the self more deeply; I get glimpses, but I must be holding on in so many ways, as I feel like I am dealing with a charging bull of a mind. I am at a point in my life where I feel that, with awakening, almost anything works. Without it, eventually almost nothing, maybe nothing at all, actually 'works'.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Hopefully exercises, 'techniques', pointers...someone to bounce off, report to, and check my practices. I realise this is very much an in-house job, but guides can be invaluable in helping save time. Like having a tennis coach; the practice is yours, they just speed things up.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A few years of Rinzai Zen, on and off. Another few years under a renegade spiritual master, resulting in kundalini emergencies, although this was many years ago. An interest in non-dual teachers, a couple of retreats with Mooji for instance.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:56 pm

Hi,

Sorry, the first post got cut off.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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tinyrick
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby tinyrick » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:33 pm

Sorry for the delay; I will post daily.
How will life change?
To live in the space whereby acceptance of ALL experience can happen, allow them to move as they will, and find their own healing/space. I have seen this happen many times before. But it is a question of degree.
How will you change?
Be more open and surrendered to live on its own terms.
What will be different?
That same openness. An increased ability to see how the patterns of conditioning can end in this disastrous chasing of positive experience, and running from negative experience.
What is missing?
Just the abiding realisation of the emptiness (and beauty) that I have seen so many times.
What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?
Kai
GMT

Thank you Stacey,
Kai.

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tinyrick
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby tinyrick » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:34 pm

Also, I have read the disclaimer.

As for doubt, yes I can be prone to doubt. But I do not ultimately doubt the nature of what we are involved in here. Self doubt has historically been a re-occurring pattern.

I am also very open, by nature.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:15 pm

Sounds good, Kai.

Remember, awakening is rarely 24/7. Please watch these 2 videos:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Now, what comes up when is read there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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kai2
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:02 am

Apologies, Stacey - I was waiting for an email notification as I received the first time, but this did not come! Assumption is the mother of all...yes, well.

I will get on this right away.

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kai2
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:53 am

Now, what comes up when is read there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be?
So, looking within. Watching. Answering honestly in this moment.

"Then why does it keep coming back?"
"Why am I sometimes a crazy person?"
"If it doesn't exist where does this pressure come from?"

Also:

"Oh, thank God. That means there is hope"
"I must work for this"

Also:

"Yes, I can see this now. It is just arising thought."

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:01 pm

Good, Kai, exactly.

I have gotten no email notifications for a couple of months. I guess I should start warning clients that might happen. Sorry!

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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kai2
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:50 am

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
This example seems clear, yes.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:12 am

Good. Let's find out if it was clear.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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kai2
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:55 pm

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.
Hearing music, simply = sound
Noticing the screen, simply = image
Feeling my hands type, simply = sensation
Smelling my blanket, simply = smell
Thinking about how to do this right, simply = thoughts
Stretching my back, simply = sensation

Broadly speaking, two main experiences. Labelling "image" (noun) is a bit more clunky than "seeing" (verb).

For what it is worth, what I notice is more like "sound-ing", or "image-ing" - the practice of labelling does not find things which can be labelled. But I do also like how labelling "sound" starts off that experiencing again, after long bouts of thinking.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:38 pm

Okay, the purpose is to distinguish Direct Experience from labels & stories (lies.)

No editorial comments are needed. Just report DE. Remember Colored Socks.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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kai2
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby kai2 » Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:03 pm

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
Labelling with "I" feels less connected, less present. Presence feels "true". So yes, I would say "I" feels less true.
2. What is here without labels?
Thinking thoughts, smelling, seeing, feeling and tasting. So just experience.
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
I am not sure. The labelling style effects differences in the body and mind greatly (see below). But ultimately all experiences are experienced in both approaches.
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
Many. Labelling with "I" comes along with tightness, fatigue, dullness. Labelling without comes along with lightness, energy, relief, even spontaneous laughter.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:34 pm

Good work, Kai!

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Many. Labelling with "I" comes along with tightness, fatigue, dullness. Labelling without comes along with lightness, energy, relief, even spontaneous laughter.
Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

[/b]
First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely. What is found?


If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

The Sun rises in the West is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I."

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not a name for the Sensation itself, for example. Do you see that?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

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Anastacia42
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Re: Ready & Willing

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:38 pm

And next...

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

I am not sure. The labelling style effects differences in the body and mind greatly (see below). But ultimately all experiences are experienced in both approaches.
Let's get sure...



Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.


Loving
~ Stacy

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"


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