Seeing no-self

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ivan93sd
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Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:22 am

Seeing no-self

Postby ivan93sd » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:23 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
'Self' is only a word, a concept, pointing to nothing. The sense of self develops at an early age under the influence of our parents and the environment and it is further strengthened by constant comparisons with 'others'. At a very early age, we see no division between the subject and object of perception, we are the entire visual field.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like to finally see the truth of no-self in direct experience. Although I seem to be able to grasp basic concepts, direct experience of no-self is still missing. There have be some changes lately, glimpses of the 'here and now', but I still haven't seen through the illusion.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To see through the illusion of separate self, to be able to see reality as it is, to get rid of the illusion of doership. Hopefully, we can get there with direct pointing, and honest reporting of my direct experience.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Two years of intensive search, reading material included J. Krishnamurti, Osho, Gurdjieff, Adyashanti, Jed McKenna and various other authors. There has been a big shift from theorising to looking at direct experience, esp. after reading UG who described the entire process in simple physiological terms. Lately I've been doing experiments developed by Douglas Harding (the Headless Way).

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Lubo
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:18 am

Re: Seeing no-self

Postby Lubo » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:05 pm

Hi Ivan,
Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
My name is Lubo and I can join you in this journey, if you are OK?

Here it is the first question where to look:
I would like to finally see the truth of no-self in direct experience
Where the word I point to? Where is this one who wants to see?

Love
lubo

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chrysalis
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:59 pm

Re: Seeing no-self

Postby chrysalis » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:08 pm

Hey Lubo,

Thanks for doing this :)

Just wanted to mention that I have already done most of the exercises from the LU book and tried talking to another guide; no controller, no doer of any kind are found, there is no separate entity inside, this is seen with certainty, but there still seems to be some clinging, and there is no direct experience. There are instances, e.g. during walking, running, when it seems that the whole picture will dissolve, that there is only seeing, hearing, sensations etc. without the subject, but these are just some minor glimpses.
Where the word I point to? Where is this one who wants to see?
It points to nothing, no 'I', no 'me', is found inside. This is seen to be only a word, a thought, that cannot exercise control, make decisions, etc.

*I am wondering why I am still inquiring about no-self even after recognizing that there’s no ‘me’. That is a certainty, there’s nothing there, just an I-thought which is no more relevant than all the other thoughts that arise. Sure, various thoughts and objections arise afterwards (‘this can’t be it’, ‘have I actually seen it’, ‘what am I still clinging to’; but these are just desperate attempts to keep an illusion that ‘I’ is something rather than nothing). There is no-one to whom these thoughts are coming.

Love,
ivan

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Lubo
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:18 am

Re: Seeing no-self

Postby Lubo » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:03 am

Hi Ivan,
Thanks for the replay.
and tried talking to another guide
Yes I saw the conversation with Jadzia, thanks to letting me know.
I am wondering why I am still inquiring about no-self even after recognizing that there’s no ‘me’. That is a certainty, there’s nothing there, just an I-thought which is no more relevant than all the other thoughts that arise. Sure, various thoughts and objections arise afterwards (‘this can’t be it’, ‘have I actually seen it’, ‘what am I still clinging to’; but these are just desperate attempts to keep an illusion that ‘I’ is something rather than nothing). There is no-one to whom these thoughts are coming.
I understand where are you.
"There is no self" is just a pointer to reality. This is impossible to see NoSelf or to see NoSanta.
The answer "there is nothing" is just a a concept. How a nothing can be seen?
Notice, without concept of a me, what is here?
Is there something other than freedom?

Love
lubo

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chrysalis
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:59 pm

Re: Seeing no-self

Postby chrysalis » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:10 pm

Hi Lubo,
"There is no self" is just a pointer to reality. This is impossible to see NoSelf or to see NoSanta.
The answer "there is nothing" is just a concept. How a nothing can be seen?
Right, so the expectation of a specific 'event' or 'experience' may be in the way. There's just no more belief in something we were sure was there, but the sense of 'I' still remains? It's just seen through for what it is; there are still sensations, feelings, thoughts etc. and the 'story' continues, but it's seen that the separare entity experiencing all of this is illusory.
Notice, without concept of a me, what is here?
Is there something other than freedom?
Just events, sensations, thoughts, apparent 'others', everything happening automatically. It seems, during walks for example, that it's possible to completely remove 'me' from the picture, looking at the environment not from the perspective of 'ivan' but just empty space, as a part of the visual field. It's seen more and more that there is no difference between 'people' and 'objects'.

Love,
ivan

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Lubo
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:18 am

Re: Seeing no-self

Postby Lubo » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:53 am

Hi Ivan,
You fight very brave for the freedom, thank you for this.

Notice the sounds and colours, are they freedom itself?
Do the thoughts and concepts understand or limit freedom?
Notice that , thoughts fixed something and start explaining it or understand it it has noting to do with reality ?

Love
lubo


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