Look and see the reality

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Vahe006161
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Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:51 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I get it this way: To see in actuality that there is no "self" at all. Not to think or believe that there is no "self" but truly see realize in direct perception that there is no "I" at all. To see very clearly that there is no "I" as clearly as we see our hands and fingers. I mean like really see the absence of "self".

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a state or perception where all the pain and suffering is happening to no one. А kind of safe perception for me where I always absent where no pain can get to me because I don't exist. I am looking for the end of illusion of a self. I want truly see that there is no "self" and all the suffering and pain is happening to no one.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to look and see in actuality that there is no "self" at all. Like really look. Not to think or believe but really look to it as I look to my fingers and see that there is no "I" as a separate self. I want to see it practicaly but not theorically.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am in active search for a year. I did hundreds of ours meditation atma vichara, nechi nechi, effortless effort, looking to existance as it is etc. And nothing helped. But all of this i have did from the position of "self". Then I found the book "gateless gatecrashers" where real peeple have seen the truth through guided conversation and I have tried the methods from that book. Heard that book many tiemes in order to find out what exactly I am doing wrong. I have some changes in my perception but still cannot see it. When I look to my sense of self it is a vague sense made of few components such as 1)tension in the head, 2) thoughts, 3) sense of alivness/existance, and 4) sense of location behind of my eyes. I have looked to life many times and tried to see it from the position of no self, like life is happening itself without driver. Tried to see is there really a need for a driver. Sometimes I have glimpses but not permanent perception.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:09 pm

Hi Vahe006161

Welcome to the LU forum.
Thanks for waiting.
My name is Lubo and I can join to you in this journey, if you are OK ?
To see in actuality that there is no "self" at all. Not to think or believe that there is no "self" but truly see realize in direct perception that there is no "I" at all. To see very clearly that there is no "I" as clearly as we see our hands and fingers. I mean like really see the absence of "self".
Ok This is very clear.
Where is the self? Can it be seen clearly like hands and fingers?
Not just believe that self is behind the eyes or it is a tension in the head ,or thoughts, or sense of aliveness, but really seen?
Look everywere and write what is found?
I am looking for a state or perception where all the pain and suffering is happening to no one.
Who or what are you without this pain and suffering, look gently?

Cheers
Lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:23 pm

Hello dear Lubo. I am so glad that you respond. My name is Vahe. I am happy to chat with you.
Where is the self? Can it be seen clearly like hands and fingers?

When I looked for "I", I only found a thought "I". But this thought is not like normal thoughts, it's a real-time continuous thought, a non-stop background. It is like always think that "I am the batman" and always feel that you are him because of that continuous thought. But even after seeing this nothing changes. That continuous thought is still there.
Who or what are you without this pain and suffering, look gently?
I couldn't find myself and I can't clearly say what I am. I only found those feelings and a thought mentioned above. I assume that this continuous thought "I" creates an experience that all the pain is happening to me.

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:54 am

Hi dear Vahe,
Nice to see you here :)
When I looked for "I", I only found a thought "I".
Wonderful
But this thought is not like normal thoughts, it's a real-time continuous thought, a non-stop background
It is so beautiful that you notice this. Every thought is about I but notice I thought is someone real I or this is a just thought?
It is like always think that "I am the batman"

:) Yes. but is there a real I or just an idea?

love
lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:37 am

Good morning dear Lubo. Here are my observations.
I've spent about an hour to explore "I". I can definitely say that "I" is only a thought and there is no "I" at all behind of that thought. I've run a test to find out what is there without a thought "I" and found out that there is no one besides of that thought. So "I" is a thought for sure and there is a strong belief to that thought that I can't get rid of. Even after seeing that "I" is a thought belief in "I" does not disappear. The belief does not fall away by itself. :(

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:29 pm

Hi dear Vahe,
I've spent about an hour to explore "I". I can definitely say that "I" is only a thought and there is no "I" at all behind of that thought. I've run a test to find out what is there without a thought "I" and found out that there is no one besides of that thought.
Wonderful investigation. Yes this is just an idea, like idea that Santa exist :)
So "I" is a thought for sure and there is a strong belief to that thought that I can't get rid of. Even after seeing that "I" is a thought belief in "I" does not disappear. The belief does not fall away by itself. :(
"I can't get rid of idea of I" - This is also an idea :) Where is the first and second I ?
Do you make a differentiation between idea and reality?

Love
lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:46 pm

I can't clearly see the border between thought/idea and reality, and cannot tell where exactly thought ends and reality starts. My thoughts and sense of reality are kind of mixed.

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:38 pm

Ok
My job is to shou you where to look and your job is to look, ok?
Notice what is real and what is an Idea?

Love to you
lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Hi dear Lubo. Thank you for doing this. This task took longer to explore. here are my observations.
When I look for reality I notice it's behind of all my thoughts. The best way I can describe "the reality" it feels like small baby silently seeing the world at the first time. Without thoughts fears and expectations. There is what there is. All my thoughts hides the reality. I found that no thought can describe reality. It seems there is no way to see the reality by using thoughts. And I also want to continue looking for reality behind of all thoughts. I feel that I have not explored everything yet.
Thank you for guiding me.
With love
Vahe

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:20 pm

Wow, Vahe,
Wonderful.
It is so nice to find what reality is and stop living in thoughts :)
Enjoy home. Stay here. No where to go.

Notice that the thoughts are just experience of the thoughts?
And I is just an Idea, notice what's left? What is real?

Love
lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:02 am

Dear Lubo thank you for guiding me.
I've tried to be calm at home to enjoy every moment here and now. But most of the time my old lifestyle (being in thoughts) took the wheel.
It seems it will take some time to defeat my old habits and start being at the current moment. And I feel that I need some time to look at reality and see it clear enough to notice "no self"
Notice that the thoughts are just experience of the thoughts?

Can you explain this part even more? You mean noticing that thoughts just are there without owner? Or something else?
And one more childish question. I found myself a little bothered about my life after seeing "no self". Will I stop being able to enjoy something, like watching favorite TV series or listening favorite music? By the way I am 24 years old.
Of course I'm ready to sacrifice everything to get free from illusory prison but finding out the answer for this question will help a lot.

With love
Vahe

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:05 am

Dear Lubo thank you for guiding me.
I've tried to be calm at home to enjoy every moment here and now. But most of the time my old lifestyle (being in thoughts) took the wheel.
It seems it will take some time to defeat my old habits and start being at the current moment. And I feel that I need some time to look at reality and see it clear enough to notice "no self"?
Notice that the thoughts are just experience of the thoughts?

Can you explain this part even more? You mean noticing that thoughts just are there without owner? Or something else?
And one more childish question. I found myself a little bothered about my life after seeing "no self". Will I stop being able to enjoy something, like watching favorite TV series or listening favorite music? By the way I am 24 years old.
Of course I'm ready to sacrifice everything to get free from illusory prison but finding out the answer for this question will help a lot. Can you tell me please how it feels, watching favorite TV series or listening favorite music after seeing "no self".

With love
Vahe

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:33 pm

Hi Vahe,
Dear Lubo thank you for guiding me.
It is pleasure to be with you in this investigation. I enjoy your openness for new possibilities.
By the way I am 24 years old.
Of course I'm ready to sacrifice everything to get free from illusory prison but finding out the answer for this question will help a lot. Can you tell me please how it feels, watching favorite TV series or listening favorite music after seeing "no self".
Wow so yоung , this is wonderful.
Don't worry you will watch more movie and will enjoy life even more then now ;)
've tried to be calm at home to enjoy every moment here and now. But most of the time my old lifestyle (being in thoughts) took the wheel.
it is so wonderful that you notice this.
The goal here is to find what is real and that I is not real. There is no one who will fight with wheel.
Notice what the wheel is made of? What is really here wheel or something else ? What is it?
It seems it will take some time to defeat my old habits and start being at the current moment.

yes this is what shame and fear wants, to close you in the cave to deal with imaginary enemy. You are absolutely free already, you are the freedom itself.
Notice these feelings which want to pause conversation? Stay with them and find Is it scary to have these feelings here?
Notice that the thoughts are just experience of the thoughts?
Can you explain this part even more? You mean noticing that thoughts just are there without owner? Or something else?
OK Notice that there is an idea that thoughts are something more then just experience of thoughts?
is there something real in thoughts then just thought?
Thought waterfall - is there one drop water even or there is just a thought?
Thought "I live life" - what is here ?

Love
lubo

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Vahe006161
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Vahe006161 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:21 pm

Hi dear Lubo. Sorry for late reply. My damn job is taking most of my time. I would have quit my job if I could to use all my time for seeing "no self". But I and my mother depend on that job.
Thought waterfall - is there one drop water even or there is just a thought?
Yes! Now I got it. This is a perfect example. Now I can surely say that there is no even one drop of a water. Only a thought about a water. The same to "I live life". Nothing more than a thought. Now I am perfectly sure about this. I saw it with my own eyes. It seems that I still have some unconscious beliefs left about "I" but can surely say that my old beliefs about "I" have become less. But there is more to go. Now each time I'm looking to thoughts and comparing them to reality I see the whole difference. Then I'm looking to thought "I" and comparing it to reality and there is no real "I". Of course the old sense of self is still here (it seems 24 years of mind habit does not disappear immediately) but when I do this exercise (looking to thought "I" and comparing it with reality) the mind habit is going down slowly but surely. I think the mind habit will be destroyed after let's say a week of active practicing this exercise. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this exercise.
Also i have found these childish fears that are slowing me down. Dear Lubo Would you answer please very detailed to these questions:
After seeing "no self" will I still be interested in:
1) Going to job and working for money (to help my mother pay off debts)
2) Relationship with my girlfriend?
3) Sex with girls?
4) going to cinema with my friends?
5) and other similar pleasures?
Will they still remain? If yes then how exactly will they change?
Finding out detailed answers to each of these questions will untie my hands greatly!
How exactly they will feel after seeing "no self"?
Dear Lubo I hope I'm not wasting your time.
With much love.
Vahe

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Lubo
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Re: Look and see the reality

Postby Lubo » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:15 am

Hi Vahe,
I would have quit my job if I could to use all my time for seeing "no self".
Ooo, this is not necessary. There is no you even now ;)
It seems that I still have some unconscious beliefs left about "I" but can surely say that my old beliefs about "I" have become less
let's change the word beliefs with Idea in this statement, what is coming? :)
Now each time I'm looking to thoughts and comparing them to reality I see the whole difference. Then I'm looking to thought "I" and comparing it to reality and there is no real "I". Of course the old sense of self is still here (it seems 24 years of mind habit does not disappear immediately) but when I do this exercise (looking to thought "I" and comparing it with reality) the mind habit is going down slowly but surely. I think the mind habit will be destroyed after let's say a week of active practicing this exercise. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this exercise.
It looks like practise :) The I want to practice, to achieve, to become more and more purify :) No practices are needed. What practice you will recommend to someone to find that there is no Santa? What thought must be looked at?
Passing Gateless Gate is only once. Just look.
1) Going to job and working for money (to help my mother pay off debts)
2) Relationship with my girlfriend?
3) Sex with girls?
4) going to cinema with my friends?
5) and other similar pleasures?
Will they still remain? If yes then how exactly will they change?
I enjoy very much these questions :)
Lets check what is here. Ok In the story of a Me, I make all these things with pleasure, lightness, spontaneously, no judgment at all, no projections what must be or what can't be.
Don't worry, noting will change and everything will changed :)

Love
lubo


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