mimi&me

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:13 pm

Hi Luchana,

Who or what could be IN the present moment to experience it?
No one, there is no self in any moment including the present one! There is only experiencing happening Now.

It seems like this, bit is this so at experience?
Experience IS real. Thoughts and memories of past experence are believed to be real by the self. Once the shift has occurred, relationship to the past also shifts and the past is seen to be a story that has less relevance to this moment, now. The past does not have the same impact or influence that it once had.
Trauma from a past event may still arise but it becomes easier to see that it is not personal, although healing/trauma release may still be needed.

And how do you know this?
I don't know very much at all to be honest. Just looking.

What is memory?
Thoughts, feelings appearing in the mind.

What is it that is considering these options?
Only thoughts. Mental chatter.

Is there anything that is listing the pros and cons, or only just thoughts appear about pros and cons?
Conflicting thoughts appear.
There seemed to be an apparent something listing the pros and cons, but when looked into it was simply another thought of listing pros and cons mascquerading as 'me'.

So the thought about the decision just appeared. What made that thought to appear?
Nothing other than the situation.

Can you find the thing that made that decision, apart from the presence of the thought about the decision?
No, it was simply a thought coming forward.

How exactly the decision is made?
It's just mind activity and had nothing to do with an apparent me, just a 'deciding' thought appeared.
In fact, prior to all of this internal debating re. pros & cons, I looked really closely and the decision had aleady been made to eat it, so the mental cogitation was all a big joke in the end and seen through!

Now, act according to the decision. (Either eat or don’t eat the chocolate.)
What is it that performed the chosen action?
My body responding to the impulse to eat prompted by thoughts and this particular personality; conditioning/preferences/habit.

Now can I watch the video please? lol.


Lots of love,
Leona

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:28 pm

Ha ha ha, just watched the neuroscience video.
In fact, prior to all of this internal debating re. pros & cons, I looked really closely and the decision had aleady been made to eat it, so the mental cogitation was all a big joke in the end and seen through!

- says it all ; )

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:33 pm

Hi Leona,

you did a good looking.

There seemed to be an apparent something listing the pros and cons, but when looked into it was simply another thought of listing pros and cons mascquerading as 'me'.
Exactly, it is not something, but a thought,
Now, let's look closer
What can a thought do?
Does a thought have some super power?
To mascquerade as a me?
Really?

In fact, prior to all of this internal debating re. pros & cons, I looked really closely and the decision had aleady been made to eat it, so the mental cogitation was all a big joke in the end and seen through!
yea..a big joke, cosmic joke :-)
How about so called important decisions?
Can you see someone doing them?
My body responding to the impulse to eat prompted by thoughts and this particular personality; conditioning/preferences/habit.
Yes, the body responding to the impulse (conditioning etc)
But what makes the body yours?

Let's investigate.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?


Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?


What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:38 pm

Hi Luchana,

What can a thought do?
It can do nothing.

Does a thought have some super power? To mascquerade as a me? Really?
Nope. Once 'me' is seen through a thought less unconvincing.

How about so called important decisions?
Big decisions, small decisions, it makes no difference as it is all still thoughts.

Can you see someone doing them?
There is no one to 'do' anything.

But what makes the body yours?
It's not really mine, only a convenient use of language, there is a real body here of which experience is perceived through.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
No. Height is not perceived in an experiencial way without the use of thoughts and visual/physical comparisons ect. When sitting still with eyes closed body height is not known.

Does the body have a weight or volume?
No, when I sit still with eyes closed body weight and volume is not percieved.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No, not when the eyes are shut, shape & form are not experienced.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
There are subtle physical sensations that are interpreted by the mind to indicate a chair is supporting the body and the body is clothed.
However, without the mind there is no labeling, just pure sensation and nothing more.

Is there an inside or an outside?
No.

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
No, with eyes shut there is no apparent physical boundary.

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
No 'outside'.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
A series of felt physical sensations.


Much love,
Leona

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:46 pm

Hi Leona,

you did a very good looking.

Let's see this closer
It's not really mine, only a convenient use of language, there is a real body here of which experience is perceived through.
Does the body experiece or the body is too experienced?

Look very closer.


Next.
What I would suggest is one day or two to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Leona am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is present and answer these questions:

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?

Does the character choose this story?

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?

Can the story of Leona be seen as what it is - just a story, including Leona?


Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:17 pm

Hi Luchana,

you did a very good looking.
tanks

Does the body experiece or the body is too experienced?
No, the body does not experience, it is experienced and also provides the apparatus for this life to be able to experience it's humaness.

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
The character seems to have it's own preferences but it cannot choose anything. A choice is made before the apparent decision-making process even begins. It looks like the character of Leona is choosing and deciding because thoughts arise which are taken to be the decision-making process in action when in fact it's just thoughts appearing and subsiding.
A character is an assortment of patterns, some flexible, some not, which relate to specific likes and dislikes, conditioning, trauma or neurosis, habit, learned behavours etc. etc.
The character is unable to choose what to feel because feelings just arise, sometimes triggered from a circumstance, memory, or just because. Nor can a character choose what to think or what to do.

Does the character choose this story?
No, this story just happens, unfolds, and then it is experienced and labelled accordingly.

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?
Noo, life happens independent of our wishes. It is experienced, that's about it!

Can the story of Leona be seen as what it is - just a story, including Leona?
Sometimes it is seen, but at the moment I'm struggling with doubt and sadness and unfortunately this is the story I find myself in. My intelllect knows it's just a story but I, Leona, feel quite concrete & full of doubt and disppointment.
There is no 'me', this is seen, but despite this seeing, these thoughts and feelings feel very real and I am in them. The paradox is there and I'm stuck in it. I can't go forward and I can't go back -meaning, I can't let go of these thoughts and feeling, yet nor can I un-see what has already been seen : (

(I wanted to answer the questions now as I enjoy them, but tomorrow I will do as prescribed; go for a walk and look again...)

Leona

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:52 pm

Hi again!

Thanks for our session today, always a delight : )

Can the story of Leona be seen as what it is - just a story, including Leona?
Sometimes it is seen, but at the moment I'm struggling with doubt and sadness and unfortunately this is the story I find myself in. My intelllect knows it's just a story but I, Leona, feel quite concrete & full of doubt and disppointment.
There is no 'me', this is seen, but despite this seeing, these thoughts and feelings feel very real and I am in them. The paradox is there and I'm stuck in it. I can't go forward and I can't go back -meaning, I can't let go of these thoughts and feeling, yet nor can I un-see what has already been seen : (
Well following on... today is a new day and life just so happens to be sweet again.
Having spent the past few days with challenging emotions and the burden of being in the mind, I sat quietly this morning and looked very closely at every individual thought/feeling that arose associated with the 'me-ness' of Leona I found myself in. One by one they dispersed like clouds until there was nothing left to obsure the open spaciousness of This. It really felt as though debris had been cleaned away. Phewy.

And then my walk...
Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
It was a gorgeous day and at one point I stopped to enjoy the sun and beautiful view.
"God I love this!" came a thought, followed by, "Well, who exactly loves this?" And to my surprise it was seen that no one loves this, 'loving this' is just happening! So then the thought came, "Well, in that case who is it that chooses and decides then?" and BINGO! No one chooses or decides, choosing and deciding simply happens!
Luchana it was such a freeing moment because I have struggled with the actual experiencing of this truth (not the knowingness of it) and it was an immense relief and liberating feeling. It's sounds sooo simple not to have seen it before, but now there's just a lot of relief and gratefullness as this was an illusive enquiry.
But there is still more exploring to do here, I'm not finished yet.

Can the story of Leona be seen as what it is - just a story, including Leona?
Today the seeing of a story is clearer but there is also an awareness of a continued sense of holding onto the mind which I want to investigate.

Much love,
Leona

ps. this 'jouney' is a real rollercoaster.

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:21 pm

Hi Leona,

Thanks for our session today, always a delight : )
You are most welcome!
It was a gorgeous day and at one point I stopped to enjoy the sun and beautiful view.
"God I love this!" came a thought, followed by, "Well, who exactly loves this?" And to my surprise it was seen that no one loves this, 'loving this' is just happening! So then the thought came, "Well, in that case who is it that chooses and decides then?" and BINGO! No one chooses or decides, choosing and deciding simply happens!
Luchana it was such a freeing moment because I have struggled with the actual experiencing of this truth (not the knowingness of it) and it was an immense relief and liberating feeling. It's sounds sooo simple not to have seen it before, but now there's just a lot of relief and gratefullness as this was an illusive enquiry.
Such a joy to read this! :-)
Yea, it is a HUGE relief.
But there is still more exploring to do here, I'm not finished yet.
What is claiming that there is more exploring to do here?

If that which is claiming this is a thought - what can a thougth do than?
Can a thought do more? Exploring for example?
Today the seeing of a story is clearer but there is also an awareness of a continued sense of holding onto the mind which I want to investigate.
Who or what is holding to the mind?
Can something real be observed holding to the mind?
And what is mind?


Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:14 pm

Hi Luchana,

What is claiming that there is more exploring to do here?
Thoughts arise around a wish to see truth clearly. There is a noticing that the enquiry into choice and decisions may or may not be quite complete. Thoughts arose as a response to seeing that this enquiry may need more looking into.

If that which is claiming this is a thought - what can a thougth do than?
nothing

Can a thought do more? Exploring for example?
no, thought can do absolutely nothing other then come and go, but exploring can happen when exploring something may be seen as helpful.

Who or what is holding to the mind?
no one, but oscillation is happening and sometimes thoughts/feelings are being believed and sometimes they are not. There is a drifting or shifting back into them and there is a preference for this to end. Mostly it is a habitual return to the familiar way of being, especially so when a something challenging appears in this life, which is often, as there is more openness and vulnerability due to lack of shielding from external influence and percieved pressures.
"Who is perceiving these pressures?" No one is, but life continues and old triggers and reactions to stresses are still being reacted to.

Can something real be observed holding to the mind?
no, but it feels like if this abiding open space inside is not relaxed into frequently then a tendency to revert back into 'mind' happens.

And what is mind?
Mind is not a thing and does not exist, it's just an easy way of describing thoughts/images/impulses/the subconscious etc.

Much love,
Leona

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:11 pm

Hi Leona,

you did a very good looking.

Sorry for delay, site wasn't responding properly.
no one, but oscillation is happening and sometimes thoughts/feelings are being believed and sometimes they are not. There is a drifting or shifting back into them and there is a preference for this to end. Mostly it is a habitual return to the familiar way of being, especially so when a something challenging appears in this life, which is often, as there is more openness and vulnerability due to lack of shielding from external influence and percieved pressures.
I understand ...
Whem something challenging appears it's not because the self is back.
Once the iilsuion/thoughts is seen through (not real) this doesn't mean that they will stop appearing. Or some difficult situations will stop arrising.
It needs to be look at again and again.
Just like in the desert - the mirage do not stop appearing once you've seen that it is only a mirage with not even one drop of water.

So do not worry, clarity comes with looking. Again and again, many little moments through the day.

Look now in this very moment,
is there a self, a me, experiencing something challenging? Or there is a challenge appearing for no one?

Much love,
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:23 pm

Hi Luchana,

Thanks for your reassuring words : )

Sorry for delay, site wasn't responding properly
Yes the site seems to get overwhelmed if there are too many visitors during hour!

Look now in this very moment,
is there a self, a me, experiencing something challenging? Or there is a challenge appearing for no one?
nope, there is no self. This, here, remains untouched by the external world and all it's illusions and challenges - challenges appear, as always, and life goes on...

Last night was super-windy and a large branch from a tree in my garden fell on a common foot path which presented a danger to the public. There was anxiety for a while as I tried to contact the local emergency group, and then a choice to simply let the stress subside. I went for a walk, enjoyed nature, felt refreshed, and on my return the job was being addressed with ease and smiling faces. All with no self.

Much love,
Leona

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:34 pm

Aaah ok this is what was confusing me... IF there is an emotional reaction to a challenge or trigger and there is no self present, reacting emotionally to a trigger still happens! got it! Cos some reaction was happening today and yet there was no self. Sounds simple, but helps to see and experience it to be free from the minefield of maya.

That's my next book: The Minefield of Maya!

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:37 pm

Thoughts and dramas are still experienced as personal so there is still suffering due to the attachment to them, despite knowing that they are just things happening and will continue to happen without a self.
I suppose this is the water mirage in the dessert scenario playing out until it is finally dropped?

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Luchana
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Re: mimi&me

Postby Luchana » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:50 am

Hi Leona,

thank you for your beautiful insights.

After our meeting today here some questions to explore:

Can it be found anywhere where 'Leona' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; conditioning etc?

Can anything be found for which 'Leona' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Once you've seen that Santa is a fiction and doesn't exist and never was - does this mean that the presents and winter vanished?

Yes, sometimes the winter is too cold, and sometimes the presents are different, but is Santa responsible?
Was it ever been?

Much love
Luchana
Look. There is no you dreaming.

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mimi8me
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Re: mimi&me

Postby mimi8me » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:41 pm

Thank you Luchana, what a wonderful meeting ; )

Can it be found anywhere where 'Leona' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; conditioning etc?
Nope, there is just emptiness/openness experiencing life unfold. Things play out and will continue to apparently play out in this life, as they always have, but it will all happen without a 'Leona' intervening, though from all outward appearances it would seem as thogh the 'I' still exists and is functioning in its 'usual' way.

Can anything be found for which 'Leona' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?
'Leona' the personality may continue to function in life as it/she always has; through conditioned response, learned behavour patterns etc. But This here now is totally free of responsibility and conditioning and remains untouched by the external world in all its forms.

Once you've seen that Santa is a fiction and doesn't exist and never was - does this mean that the presents and winter vanished?
No, outward appearances continue, life continues in its usual way. Nothing changes on the outside but the view looking out has radically changed and is seen as impersonal.

Yes, sometimes the winter is too cold, and sometimes the presents are different, but is Santa responsible?
Was it ever been?
A sweet illusion, shattered. What was seen cannot be unseen. The shattering here was quite brutal, everything taken away, 'buffers and crutches' gone, no comforting corner to hide in, nothing to smooth my ride. Except you, Luchana, always there to encourage and guide with joy, an open heart and loads of smiles. Thank you thank you always...


Thank you Luchana for this final looking.
It has become easy to answer these questions now, they are available and flow from here.


Much love dear friend,
Leona xx


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