Experiential Seeing

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:32 am

Hi again Lubo!
Word water points to something but notice is there a water in this word, one drop even?
No! Nothing. Just a pointer.
So in the word awareness there is no awareness but this word point to something, what is it?
Hard to put into words: The reality of awareness awareing everything arising in awareness. Or using other words beingness (as a verb) in and among everything arising in and as beingness.

Love,
EyeEye

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:53 pm

Ok

Is this awareness/beingness you?
Is there an you who can choose what to appear?

Love
L

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:57 pm

Hi Lubo!
Is this awareness/beingness you?
No it’s not. It is awareness/being – in which a sense of “me” appears, together with concepts, trees, words, rocks, thoughts, etc., and at the same time the awareness/being don't seem to be separated from a sense of “me”, concepts, trees, words, rocks, etc.
Is there an you who can choose what to appear?
No. What appears, appears without a choice from "me".

Love,
EyeEye

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:00 am

No. What appears, appears without a choice from "me"
.
What is me? What this word point to?

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:25 am

Hi Lubo!
What is me? What this word point to?
“Me” appears as, and points to, stories, thoughts, words, etc. about the idea of “me”. I.e. nothing tangible, but quite usable when communicating with others ; )

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:09 am

Me” appears as, and points to, stories, thoughts, words, etc. about the idea of “me”. I.e. nothing tangible,
Wonderful.
.but quite usable when communicating with others ; )
Yes. The language works like this.
For exampel "It’s raining" There is assumption that someone or something make this.
Investigate this "Im talking to you"
Notice what is happening and what the language do?
Is there real me who tolking to other me?

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:27 am

Hi again Lubo!
Investigate this "Im talking to you"
Notice what is happening and what the language do?
Language is by it’s very nature creating division into subject/object, creating “me” and “you/it”, creating labels, creating identification, etc.
Is there real me who tolking to other me?
There is a sense of “me” and “you” created/maintained by use of language. But in direct experience there is no division, and no “I” or “you”. Seeing, hearing, etc “another” is just happening – thoughts/ideas/concepts then layers this experience into “you are talking to me”. It's really hard to describe this by using words, since it reverts back into divisions. That doesn't happen in the direct experience of whatever happens/appears - the direct experience just IS.

Love,
EyeEye

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:12 pm

Language is by it’s very nature creating division into subject/object, creating “me” and “you/it”, creating labels, creating identification, etc.
Wonderful, Eye Eye :)
There is a sense of “me” and “you” created/maintained by use of language
Does the sense create something different then sense itself?
Does the language create something real? Investigate this word: "Waterfall" is there one drop water even?
Word I, Me - is there real me, I?

So, what is this sense of me?
Can sense talk, think - or there are thoughts, talking...?

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:45 pm

Hi again Lubo!

Some quick responses.
Does the sense create something different then sense itself?
No, it’s just a bundle of thoughts, ideas, a figment of imagination, etc. that creates the sense of “I”. It’s like the much used picture of the waves on the ocean – the waves (sense of “I”, “other” people and things) isn’t separated from the ocean (here I stumble for words… let’s call it the Total Beingness), the problem is when the waves (“I”, “you” or “things” etc) loses the sense of the vast Beingness, of being appearances in what just is and what is happening, the sense of just wave'ing/being wave'ed. I don’t know how to better describe this… When seeing the words just written it sounds so bland and kind of new age’y ; ) , not at all as what is experienced : )
Does the language create something real? Investigate this word: "Waterfall" is there one drop water even?
Word I, Me - is there real me, I?
No and no : )
So, what is this sense of me?
I think I answered this in response to the first question.
Can sense talk, think - or there are thoughts, talking...?
There’s just thoughts, talking, etc happening/appearing.

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:58 pm

No, it’s just a bundle of thoughts, ideas, a figment of imagination, etc. that creates the sense of “I”. It’s like the much used picture of the waves on the ocean – the waves (sense of “I”, “other” people and things) isn’t separated from the ocean (here I stumble for words… let’s call it the Total Beingness), the problem is when the waves (“I”, “you” or “things” etc) loses the sense of the vast Beingness, of being appearances in what just is and what is happening, the sense of just wave'ing/being wave'ed. I don’t know how to better describe this… When seeing the words just written it sounds so bland and kind of new age’y ; ) , not at all as what is experienced : )
All this is too intellectual. The questions are simple. Describe what is seen with your own words, don't go to nondual cliche. Seeing is fresh, words that point to this freshness are also fresh.
Be honest with you, is there an experiential seeing or just intellectual knowing?

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:54 pm

Ok, I’ll try… Using words easily gets into “intellectual” rambling…
Does the sense create something different then sense itself?
No. The sense is just that, a sense.

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:19 pm

Hi Eye Eye,

Look this:
There is a sense of “me” and “you” created/maintained by use of language
and this:
Does the sense create something different then sense itself?
No. The sense is just that, a sense.
Yes, the sense is just a sense and cannot create any thing.
Sense of me - is there something like me or this is just a sense?
Is there still a belief that you are sense?
Notice this sense - is there someone behind it?

lubo

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:59 am

Hi Lubo!

Excuse the late reply. Hectic workdays...
Sense of me - is there something like me or this is just a sense?
Is there still a belief that you are sense?
Notice this sense - is there someone behind it?
The sense of me is just a sense, composed of thoughts, memories, etc gathered into a sense of a separate me. No, there’s no belief that I’m the sense of me. The sense is just happening/appearing, and there is no one/someone behind the sense.

Love,
EyeEye

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Lubo
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby Lubo » Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:34 am

Hi Eye Eye,
The sense of me is just a sense, composed of thoughts, memories, etc gathered into a sense of a separate me. No, there’s no belief that I’m the sense of me. The sense is just happening/appearing, and there is no one/someone behind the sense.
Yes, but is this an experiential seeing or it is an intellectual understanding?
No, there’s no belief that I’m the sense of me.
What is the belief then? What are you?

love
lubo

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EyeEye
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Re: Experiential Seeing

Postby EyeEye » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:42 am

Hi Lubo!
Yes, but is this an experiential seeing or it is an intellectual understanding?
I guess it’s both. As soon as trying to describe anything it seems there has to be some kind of intellectual understanding (otherwise the answer to any type of question would probably be silence). When direct looking/seeing for/after a “me” happens there’s just the appearance of whatever appears - sensory experiences, thoughts, feelings, etc).
What is the belief then? What are you?
I don’t think I have a belief about “what I am” – there’s just a sense of me (but that’s not me), and behind that sense there is no-one + sensory experiences, thoughts, feelings, things, things happening, etc.

Love,
EyeEye


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