Why does oneness elude me?

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lostpixel
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Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Mon May 24, 2021 9:19 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I think of the self as being the story about the person, or perhaps more precisely the identification with thoughts and conditioning.

What are you looking for at LU?
A depth of realisation beyond what I have right now, as what I have right now doesn't seem 'enough' to make a meaningful difference. I also find myself wanting an experience of 'oneness' or self-lessness that I hear or read other people talk about and sounds like it's an important or inherent part of realisation, but not something I'm sure I've experience.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Help with the realisation of no seperate self and perhaps help with a direct experience of oneness or self-lessness in such a way that the realisation is stronger, more lasting or more present in everyday existence.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
With nearly no prior experience with mediation I went on a 6 day silent mediation retreat in India 18 years ago and had a special and profound experience, but I did not interpret it as any kind of realisation of no separate self at the time, and the apparent benefits kind of faded over time. For the last 3 years I've taken up mediation and am getting something out of it, and I've become interested in non-duality and just really wanting to understand/experience/realise it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:43 am

Hi lostpixel,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the waiting.
My name is Lubo and I can join to you in this journey, if you are OK?
How you prefer to call you lostpixel or ?

I read your intro and one question pops-up:
Do you believe that seeing through the illusion of the individual self is a state in which you can abide?

Cheers
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:28 am

Hi Lubo, thanks so much for joining me on this journey. I'm really appreciative of your time and energy. lostpixel is fine, thank you.
Do you believe that seeing through the illusion of the individual self is a state in which you can abide?
I guess I do. Or perhaps more precisely I think of it as an aspect of everyday experience that one can kind of 'tune in' to. It's always there but just needs to be recognised as being there. I hear that it can also be forgotten, at least temporarily once realised, but that's just what I've heard so don't really know.

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:26 am

Hi lostpixel,
Thanks for the replay.
thanks so much for joining me on this journey. I'm really appreciative of your time and energy.
You are more than welcome.
Do you believe that seeing through the illusion of the individual self is a state in which you can abide?
I guess I do
.
What if this is not a state? And who will abide?
Look around, there is no you even now, what must be different?
Is there a state called "Santa does not exist?"
What the state "No me" looks like?

Best
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:24 pm

What if this is not a state? And who will abide?
I assume there's something vaguely identifiable as 'you' that remains, Maybe just awareness or 'aliveness' at least, no?
Look around, there is no you even now, what must be different?
I assume that nothing in the world or person needs to be different, but surely *something* needs to be different otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you right now, you know what I mean?
Is there a state called "Santa does not exist?"
No, I think I see your point.
What the state "No me" looks like?
I don't know. I'm not expecting/hoping for any change in life circumstance or change in personality, just somehow the ability to see what I'm not seeing/recognising for some reason.

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:43 am

I assume there's something vaguely identifiable as 'you' that remains, Maybe just awareness or 'aliveness' at least, no?
There is an I, who want to see through what is and to find something else.
But this investigation is to see that there is just this and there is no I at all.
An I wants to survive like an awareness or 'aliveness' and be separate from what is, be untouchable :)
Can you see this?
...just somehow the ability to see what I'm not seeing/recognising for some reason.
How it is recognised that Santa is a belief in the story?
Look around where is Santa? Where is the story of Santa?
Where is you, where is my-story?
Can the story create the real me? Real Santa?
Can the thoughts build real me?
What is this that is separate from what is, from this?

love
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:27 am

An I wants to survive like an awareness or 'aliveness' and be separate from what is, be untouchable :)
Can you see this?
I'm not sure if it wants to survive or not, but is just seems to exist, at least as a locus of attention or centre point for perception.
How it is recognised that Santa is a belief in the story?
Look around where is Santa? Where is the story of Santa?
I guess if we're not taking the story/beliefs about Santa as evidence or truth then he neither exists or doesn't exist. Both are thoughts and stories.
What is this that is separate from what is, from this?
I don't know, just this sense of being the locus of attention or centre point for perception. Also the obviousness of not experiencing other peoples inner thoughts and feelings, so therefore feeling a sense of ownership over the these particular inner thoughts and feelings.

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:20 am

An I wants to survive like an awareness or 'aliveness' and be separate from what is, be untouchable :)
Can you see this?
I'm not sure if it wants to survive or not, but is just seems to exist, at least as a locus of attention or centre point for perception.
I understand very well what you mean. Here is a life happening and there is a me for whom it is happening, something like this?
Notice that the firs half of statement is absolutely real. Life/existence is happening, isn't it?
Notice when it is happening?
How many hours or minutes or seconds must waiting for life to start happen?
Did you heard that the truth is very, extremely simple?
So, look around, this is it.
Second part of the statement - there is a me for whom life is happening
is a given information, a story. Story about Santa.
Without the purpose to give presents to the children what is Santa?
Will be a story about Santa at all?
Without a purpose to achieve something in life, to put meaning in life, without "I don't have to waste my life"
Is there a story about me ? Is there a me/Santa at all?
what is actually remain here?
Also the obviousness of not experiencing other peoples inner thoughts and feelings, so therefore feeling a sense of ownership over the these particular inner thoughts and feelings.
The purpose, the meaning of life called Santa/me can see only other purpose of life with name Easter Bunny/he or she
One story meets other story.
Santa can't imagine what the life without Santa will be.
So, the exercise is to find all purposes that thoughts story put in life happening.
Write all them here.

best
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:43 am

Hi lubo, thanks for this.

I don't quite understand the last question, do you mind rephrasing it?

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:27 am

Hi lostpixel ,
So, the exercise is to find all purposes that thoughts story put in life happening.
The existence/reality/life happening is just this: sounds, colours, feelings, tastes and smells + thoughts
Or
content of thoughts/story?
Can the content of thoughts be touch, taken a picture, heart, tasted or smelled?
For example - thought about waterfall - is there waterfall happening? or there is just thought happening?
The invitation is to see that the me=story=purpose
or to see that the purpose is just a content of thoughts.
seeing that the purpose does not exist=story collapse=me collapse
So, find all thoughts with the content called purpose and write them
and notice what is to find that this is just a thought but not life happening?
Notice what left, what is real, what is this that is not imagination?
Is there a me at all?

love
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:14 am

Ok, I'm thinking about purpose...
- to be a good father to my children and husband to my wife
- to be a good workmate and do good work
- to be a good friend
- to try and help people and do good in the world
- to fulfil my creative potential and bring new things into the world

I can see that these are thoughts, and they seem like good thoughts, meaningful thoughts.

When recognised as just thoughts there is a little release of tension, a letting go.

When I ask "Is there a me at all?" body sensation comes to the fore, and the close proximity, intimacy and dominance of thought comes as well. It's just so strong and dominating. It's as if it's saying "it's me, I'm right here!" :-)

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:06 pm

Thank's for the replay.
Ok, I'm thinking about purpose...
- to be a good father to my children and husband to my wife
- to be a good workmate and do good work
- to be a good friend
- to try and help people and do good in the world
- to fulfil my creative potential and bring new things into the world
yes, these are thoughts. There is a story about Santa/me who has purposes.
Santa brings gifts to the children and a Me is thinking.. Is it true? or me is in the story? and has a purpose?
Is there a me without a story and purpose?
Can the me, story and purpose be touched, smelled, test, seen or heart?
Notice, is the life need a purpose to be, to exist?

I can see that these are thoughts, and they seem like good thoughts, meaningful thoughts.
What you do to make thoughts?
How do you think exactly?
When recognised as just thoughts there is a little release of tension, a letting go.
Yes, is the content of thoughts exist in reality?
When I ask "Is there a me at all?" body sensation comes to the fore, and the close proximity, intimacy and dominance of thought comes as well. It's just so strong and dominating. It's as if it's saying "it's me, I'm right here!" :-)
Yes :) so, the word I, me is pointing to sensation and thoughts...and that is it. Is there real You behind the thoughts and sensations? or there is just this- colour, sensation, sound, smell and taste?
Are there sensations and thoughts experiencing or experienced?

love
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:54 am

Thanks for your reply lubo.
Can the me, story and purpose be touched, smelled, test, seen or heart?
No. I think I see what you're saying.
What you do to make thoughts? How do you think exactly?
Good question! I don't really know. Thoughts, in the form of images and language just seem to pop into experience. But even though I don't consciously create them I still take a form of ownership of them. Perhaps in a similar way to body sensations - I don't consciously create them, but they're 'mine'.
is the content of thoughts exist in reality?
I guess it depends on how you define reality. The content of thoughts can't be seen/heard/touched, so aren't part of physical reality, but they're still experienced, so form part of conscious reality in that way.
Are there sensations and thoughts experiencing or experienced?
I like this. Yes they're experienced, not experiencing themselves. When thoughts are flooding in and reacting to experience they can seem like they're experiencing, but when things are stiller it's more obvious that they are only experienced.

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Lubo
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby Lubo » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:58 am

Hi lostpixel,
is the content of thoughts exist in reality?
I guess it depends on how you define reality. The content of thoughts can't be seen/heard/touched, so aren't part of physical reality, but they're still experienced, so form part of conscious reality in that way
.
let's look here., the thoughts waterfall, what is the experience? Waterfall or thoughts? What is reality - waterfall or thoughts?
Is there reality where the thoughts waterfall become real waterfall? Can you drink or touch water? Take a photo and send it to me?


What reality is?
Colour, sound, sensation, test and smell +thoughts but not the content of thoughts. is there something else?
What you do to make thoughts? How do you think exactly?
Good question! I don't really know. Thoughts, in the form of images and language just seem to pop into experience. But even though I don't consciously create them I still take a form of ownership of them. Perhaps in a similar way to body sensations - I don't consciously create them, but they're 'mine'.
So, we found (in previous question) what reality is. And the illusion is that there is somebody who is dropped from unreality in reality via meteorite and start thinking about reality, smell it, tested, feel it... but reality is colour, thoughts, feeling...
Is there someone who make reality? Or reality is just Is?
Who make thoughts? How? what about colours? sensation, test?...
Is there reality on one hand and someone who test it on other hand? If there is, does this mean that this one is different from reality, not real, does not exist :)
Can someone that does not exist feel feelings? test the test? Thinking thoughts? Or there is just feelings, test, thoughts...?

much love,
lubo

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lostpixel
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Re: Why does oneness elude me?

Postby lostpixel » Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:00 am

Hi again,
Is there reality where the thoughts waterfall become real waterfall? Can you drink or touch water? Take a photo and send it to me?
Just sent you a photo. Just kidding. I see what you mean. But what about love - you can't take a photo of that either, but does that mean it's not real?
Colour, sound, sensation, test and smell +thoughts but not the content of thoughts
The distinction between thoughts and the content on thoughts was useful to me, thanks.
Is there someone who make reality? Or reality is just Is?
Just is.
Who make thoughts?
I'm guessing the brain (i.e. part of the body) generates thoughts automagically to help survive and thrive. But from a direct experience perspective they're just there, without any obvious maker.
Is there reality on one hand and someone who test it on other hand?
I'm assuming by 'test' you mean 'taste' or 'experience'? It's a good question. My instinct is that there is some observer/experiencer of some sort, but they're not separate from reality, just a part of it.
If there is, does this mean that this one is different from reality, not real, does not exist :)
Couldn't this one just be a subset of reality, in the same way a cat's mind/consciousness is just a part of reality to me?


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