I don't want to be blind any longer

[TeeKa112]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Focused guiding: I very much hope to be able to be helped to focus me/my mind/my brain??? onto the non existing self. Right now "I" feel blind, like knowing there is something that is true, but I can't reach there, can not see it, can not get it. And it's this me/my mind that does everything to evade any forcing or pushing myself into seeing truth.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have a strong desire, sometimes it feels like an urge, sometimes there is a mental thing of giving up, which never, luckily works, to get out of something. And yes, I have had little experiences of getting something, of seeing real, like when reading some book, it was such an overwhelming opening: there where I am, there is no truth and wherever there is truth, I is not. But nothing that stays, nothing permanent. I hope that you can help through your guiding to get over this. Something like to arrive where I am not........

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Wow!!! I was deeply touched when I met your site, tears in my eyes, and in the same moment so high in spirits: it is a thought, or wish I have been having for a long time, but I thought it was only a funny idea: to have a 1to1 guide. I have experienced that in "meetings" or "talks", in person or online, coming out with questions, does not work for me. I seem to be shy about it in front of big groups, I feel I need too much time, also thoughts about not having "good enough" questions, or fear of having my insights being rejected, ridiculed my concepts and nonsense like this, but still existing. So, when I found your site, I was shocked and happy at the same time. What do I expect from the conversations? to be helped and supported to stay with something, to not let the mind get away, into deviations, but to pursue a track, that will ultimately show the reality of "no self" out there.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Thinking about it now, well, as long as I can remember, I kind of felt strange, like not belonging to what was going on around me. Then in my teens and more when in my 20s, it turned into "why is everything and everybody so strange?". I always felt out of sync with a lot of what was around me. Luckily sometime later I met my now husband who was different and things came together, in the sense that I was not alone, but I understood and saw, there were many people who felt normal not being "mainstream", or who had this inner urge to understand something......... Well, then we had a time consuming business together and for 21 years and we did both our best to be successful and at the same time to be true to ourselves, to where we were, to from where we were coming, to what was important to us...... being in this world but not of this world, like doing everything that was needed to be done and in the same time not taking it as .... what? truth? reality? that what it looked like? ........ now, some years later, after we sold the business, with more time, I am attracted to non-duality, I see or saw some people, in person or online. I do not have a real practise like meditating regularly, but I love to be alone and quiet or listening to some good insights or reading some books. Huang Po is one of my favourite.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

Hi TeeKa112,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you?

What time zone are you in, please?

Much love,

[TeeKa112]

Dear Stacy,

I am very happy that you are my guide. Since I found the LU site, a month ago, I am very much looking forward.

I am happy to post everyday and I can schedule in such a way.

If one day I will not be able to post, I will at least let you know that I am still there and with you and that the post will come a bit later.

I just read the Disclaimer. I feel ready and willing to question all my beliefs and assumptions. Right now I don't feel any fear.

I also read what LU is NOT. I feel very lucky to have arrived here.

About the housekeeping:

Yes, I will post once a day.

I try my best to be honest.

For the time being I will put aside all other "spirituel" books, talks, film, videos. I do not have a spirituel practice. Sometimes Sometimes I sit quiet for some time in the mornings and will continue to do so.

I took your advise about the technical glitches and I am copying my text for security.

How will life change?

I don't think that life will change. I don't think that life can change. I see life as independent from me, life is just there, it is doing it's thing, it is lifing........ Life is not interested in me per se, even when I am part of life, of the total.....

How will you change?

I don't really know.

I just was quiet for some time and tried to look inside and feel. I feel both, a bit of tightness in my chest area, but also expansion. Curiosity and joy actually.

When I try to think about this I, that will change, it gets foggy....... no answer is coming.

What will be different?

Very interesting question, WHAT will be different:

Maybe something that now feels like a separation between “ME” and life itself can move away?
Now I feel blind as if I can't see what is really there or what is obvious, maybe something I don't see can emerge into sight?

What is missing?

Freedom, expansion, a feeling of a direct contact with what is, no-separation, directness, vastness, feeling of unity, liberation,

ha, so many nice words, but that is what came......

When I close my eyes and feel: Sehnsucht, I think it is desire or yearning, a longing, but I don't know for what.....


Dear Stacy, my name is Trisha, you can call me with this name. My time zone is MEST, middle european summer time, I am in Germany.

Looking forward

Trisha

[Anastacia42]

Hi Trisha

Yes, just words of course, and beautiful answers just the same.

I love how you were careful to answer every point! You seem very in touch with your present experience. That will help!.

Yes, life life-ing. So true.

Now please tell me what comes up when it's read there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

Much love,

[TeeKa112]

Hello Stacy, good morning to you,

I am happy to be back.

Now please tell me what comes up when it's read there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

Of course this is not the first time I read this message. But I want to look again fresh, meaning sitting stilll and looking with closed eyes inside.



There is no self: feels good inside, actually nothing really happens and I don't feel anything, but not in a bad sense, a void maybe

Never has been: wow, now there is a blackness which pulls me inside..... where? I don't no.... not a bad feeling either.


And never will be: now as if I am floating, a feeling of dizziness, no ground under my body, not bad either.

That's it.

Greetings

Trisha

[Anastacia42]

Very good, Trisha. Love the way you are connecting to your present moment experience through Sensation. That is very much how you will look in the upcoming pointers given. Here is an exercise demonstrating this.

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Much love,

[TeeKa112]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Stacy, I am clear about this difference between actually looking and thinking about how it could be or is.

Thank you

[TeeKa112]

And about all the other senses also, all the senses that are direct experience plus the act of thinking, but without any content of these thoughts.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Trisha.

This exercise will probably be easy for you. We are establishing how to look and see that there is no self.

Here is a simple exercise to be sure you are distinguishing between Direct Experience and stories *about* DE

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with a list like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list exactly like the one above, please.

Refer to this green list of Actual/Direct Experience for help. You will refer to this often doing these exercises.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, things bodies can feel, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, which is made-up)

Let me know if you have any questions.

Loving,

[TeeKa112]

Post several of your own observations in a list exactly like the one above, please.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, things bodies can feel, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, which is made-up)


Good morning Stacy,

I read your post first thing in the morning, on my phone and still lying in bed.
So my first observation was right then and there, lying on my matress.

Seeing the ceiling: white and flat
hearing purling of water: I didn't actually go to the window, so no DE of creek
feeling/touch: the whole back of my body, from heel to head, touch with sheet on matress (I looked)
That was interesting, a strong feel of touch or kind of light pressure, but is it the skin or the sheet what is being felt? No real boundery was felt, just something is touching there
smell: no nothing
taste: no nothing
thoughts about what I was doing were coming and going


Then later breakfirst:
seeing of outmeal and honey: colour and structure
feeling of touch: hot bowl in my hands, then touch of spoon in my hand
smell: hot oatmeal
taste: sweet, oatmeal, hot
seeing: my hands coming into the picture, one hand grabbing bowl, other hand stirring and then using spoon
lots of thoughts about what I am doing were coming and passing, not connected thoughts coming and going
hearing: river and voices from outside


Then later: bike ride to market

seeing: whenever I remembered what I am doing: seeing of grey street, right and left seeing of passing people, parked cars, trees
seeing my hands on the handle bar
hearing: most strong was the air and soft wind on my ears
touch: wind on my ears, touch of hands on bar, bottom on seddle, feat on pedals; heat on my body
smell: trees
thoughts about what I was doing, may other thoughts, coming and going

On the market waiting at stands:

Seeing the many colours and forms of veggies and fruits,
smells: all kind of nature smells, food
sometimes: feel of touch of ground of my feet on shoes
taste: nothing
hearing: voices of other people around
lots of thoughts flying in and out,
when vendor talked to me, the exercise stopped.........;-(


Lunch:
preparing lunch:

seeing the forms and colours of veggies and salads and fruits
hands coming in and out
then seeing how my hands and arms move: take food and put it into pot, taking salads to water to rinse, putting salads into bowl
hearing: cutting food, knife on wood board
smell of fruits
taste: strawberries
thoughts coming and going, passing by

eating lunch:

seeing the colors of the food on the plate
seeing of hands coming into the picture and using knife and fork
taste: taste of the food, bitter, sweet, hot, warm
smell: smell of the food, esp. strong strawberries
hearing: the purling of water, neighbors slightly talking
feeling of touch: sitting on chair, back against back of chair

Later: sitting on sofa and reading
seing the pages of the book, white and black letters,
hearing of outside, purling of water, voices
taste and smell: nothing
feeling: bottom and back agains sofa, feet against table,
again not sure where exactly the feeling is, the touch is, with eyes closed there are no boundaries



I noticed that because of you asking to do this, there was more focus, concentration to actually experience more often what I was doing, some energy from outside initiated this doing??

With love
Trisha

[TeeKa112]

Hello Stacy,

I think I was too fast and not exact enough:


Early morning:
Seeing the ceiling: colour/form
hearing purling of water: sound
the whole back of my body, from heel to head, touch with sheet on matress (I looked): sensation
That was interesting, a strong feel of touch or kind of light pressure, but is it the skin or the sheet what is being felt? No real boundery was felt, just something is touching there
smell: no nothing
taste: no nothing
thoughts about what I was doing were coming and going

Then later breakfirst:
seeing of outmeal and honey: colour and image
feeling of bowl in my hands, touch of spoon in my hand: sensation
smell of oatmeal: simply smell
tasting the oatmeal: simply tast
seeing: my hands coming into the picture, one hand grabbing bowl, other hand stirring and then using spoon
lots of thoughts about what I am doing were coming and passing, not connected thoughts coming and going
hearing: river and voices from outside: sounds

bike ride to market

seeing: whenever I remembered what I am doing: seeing of grey street, right and left seeing of passing people, parked cars, trees: images
seeing my hands on the handle bar: image
hearing: most strong was the air and soft wind on my ears: sounds
touch: wind on my ears, touch of hands on bar, bottom on seddle, feat on pedals; heat on my body: different sensations
smell of trees: simply smell
thoughts about what I was doing, may other thoughts, coming and going

On the market waiting at stands:

Seeing veggies and fruits: forms and images and colours
smells: all kind of foods: simply smells
sometimes: feel of touch of ground of my feet on shoes: sensation
taste: nothing
hearing: voices of other people around: sounds
lots of thoughts flying in and out,

when vendor talked to me, the exercise stopped.........;-(

preparing lunch:

seeing veggies and salads and fruits: forms images colours
hands coming in and out
seeing how my hands and arms move: take food and put it into pot, taking salads to water to rinse, putting salads into bowl
hearing: cutting food, knife on wood board: simply sounds
smell of fruits: simply smells
taste of strawberries: simply taste
thoughts coming and going, passing by

eating lunch:

seeing food on the plate: images
seeing of hands coming into the picture and using knife and fork: image and movement
taste of the food: simply taste
smell: smell of the food: simply smell
hearing: the purling of water, neighbors slightly talking: different sounds
feeling of touch: sitting on chair, back against back of chair: sensations

sitting on sofa and reading
seing the pages of the book, white and black letters: colours and image
hearing of outside, purling of water, voices: simply sounds
taste and smell: nothing
feeling: bottom and back agains sofa, feet against table: sensations

sitting on balcony:

seeing the screen: image
hearing the water: sounds
smelling trees and grass: simply smell
tasting chocolate: simply taste
sitting on chair, legs touching other chair: sensations
thoughts about how it feels now different: just thoughts


Stacy, it feels different now, put in this way, it is not personal anymore,
image, taste, smell, sensation, that all is, but I am not involved.

Wow

Have a nice day
Trisha

[Anastacia42]

Hi Tricia,

Yes. Your 2nd list is better, but do you see how the meaning changes when you've got the direct experience on the left and the description on the right?

You want the experience on the left and then name the direct or actual experience on the right. It makes it a little more definitional.

You seem to mostly have the idea though.

That was interesting, a strong feel of touch or kind of light pressure, but is it the skin or the sheet what is being felt? No real boundery was felt, just something is touching there

Yes, you are precocious. There is no boundary and no difference. When I was guided here I was given one exercise. I was asked to look for a boundary between my butt and the chair.

We are not meant to find one. The looking brings about seeing no self.

Try that. What is found?

Loving,

[TeeKa112]

Yes Stacy, I get what you are pointing out:

I put the last wrong ones into the right order now and I do feel the difference:


seeing my hands coming into the picture, one hand grabbing bowl, other hand stirring and then using spoon: image
lots of thoughts about what I am doing: simply thoughts

thoughts about what I was doing: simply thoughts

different thoughts coming about remembering about the experience: simply thoughts

lots of thoughts flying in and out: simply thoughts

seeing how my hands and arms move and take food and put it into pot, taking salads to water to rinse, putting salads into bowl: images

thoughts coming and going, passing by: simply thoughts


I feel it most strong in the thoughts sector.

It feels like taking any person out of the whole action, just the action remains.

This is making me dizzy........

look for a boundary between butt and the chair.
Try that. What is found?

Since I discoverd it this morning, I looked at this strange sensation on different chairs and sofas, now I have butt on sofa with legs on chair, I can't difine where the butt ends, has its outer skin and where the cushion starts, sensation wise it is all the same, no boundary. Legs on chair is the same thing, are my legs the chair or is the chair going into the legs?
And who's legs are this anyway?
And the butt? There is the sensation of this body part but not in connection to me, no, the other way around: no me is connected to this butt. So, who's butt is this?

Only sensations here. or there is sensationing..........

Precocious:-))) Ha,this nobody told me ever! I was always slow...... not really I think,but so it seemed. But luckily I don't care.
PS I am 62

Love

[Anastacia42]

Hi Tricia,

I'm 61. 12/19

feels like taking any person out of the whole action, just the action remains

Yes! Good!

This is making me dizzy........

If you "let go" and relax, does this new perspective get easier? Less dizzy?

Yes Stacy, I get what you are pointing out:

I put the last wrong ones into the right order now and I do feel the difference:

Good!

Only sensations here. or there is sensationing..........

Exactly! Only actioning. (That's why I sign "loving.")

Can you find a "me?" A separate "self"? Anywhere?

Loving,

[TeeKa112]

Hello Stacy,

61 12/19 is december 19th?
Ha, here it is 62 1/12, what is 1st of december (european way to put it). Nice.

If you "let go" and relax, does this new perspective get easier? Less dizzy?

Yesterday when I discovered the no-boundary between my body and the object, chair, mattress, sofa, it impacted me strongly, I felt hit, moved, touched, physically, not mentally. When I wrote about it to you, I felt the dizziness.

This is all gone today. Every time I try to feel the sensation of my body and a chair or floor etc, yes, there is nothing, I can't feel my body here, but no strong sensation or impact about this recognition.

First I thought it is gone, I can't feel it anymore. But I do. Maybe it is kind of normal, integrated. And these thoughts are a critic about how it should be different.

Yes, clarity about the new perspective of no person in the action, no boundary between body and chair.

Can you find a "me?" A separate "self"? Anywhere?

I can't find anything, nowhere. I searched inside, like inner vision (do I think I would see it???), with the eyes closed, right left up down across behind in front..... nothing at all. I also don't hear or taste or smell or can touch anything like a me or self. It seems to be a fiction, real only because I think it is real or because I am taught it does exist. But finding it for real? NO. Same goes for separate self. Where is it? I don't find it.

Is it just a habit to believe it does exist and that habit resists the ovieousness of not finding it?
I am wondering, what is going on?

Looking forward to your insights, have a lovely day
Trisha