Walking through the locked door

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:31 pm

Hi Dave,

That's great! I'm glad you used this wording.
. If you were to ask if there is a sense of certainty regarding no-self, the answer would be no.
No, I was not asking you to express certainty.

Clarity, though, is a different matter.
. There is an understanding and acknowledgement of the illusory nature of the self.
You came to this inquiry with an intellectual understanding. Has that understanding deepened or shifted recently?

How does the acknowledgement work? Is there an experiential dimension to it?
. There is a sense of peace which increasingly pervades experience.
Very nice.

Is this peace part of the acknowledgement?


Love

Jon

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:02 pm

I'm still with you Jon.

I'll reply soon when I've had a chance to ponder.

Love

Dave

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:14 pm

Don't think too hard or long Dave. It's ok to have doubts, if those are appearing? It's ok to see clearly that there's no self, if that's what's happening.


Love

Jon

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:18 pm

Hi Jon,
It's ok to have doubts
It's not that I have doubts, it's more that I can see two different realities, depending on how I look.

One view shows a separate me, with all my strengths and weaknesses, joys and suffering, in a world of people and objects.
The other view shows a universal oneness with no separate me.

I am moving gradually from position one to position two, thanks to you and to others around me, and to books and youtube clips. There is a flipping back and forth but a general trend towards oneness with the increasing joy and love that this reveals.

Love

Dave
For the joy of it all

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:13 pm

Hi Dave,

That sounds great. And "flipping" can occur. It's quite common to be honest, at first.

How about those six questions (some distance behind us in the thread)? Would you take another look at those questions and answer so e differently now?

If so, what differences would there be?

You will have to scroll back a few pages to find out what you were saying. If you can't find where you answered them I can have a go at finding them. Or alternatively I could present the questions afresh and you could answer them as you see things now?

Love

John

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:39 pm

Hi Jon,

Please present the six questions afresh.
I'd rather not see, and possibly be influenced by, my previous answers.

We could maybe compare later to see what changes have occurred, but it's the now that's important.

Dave
For the joy of it all

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:49 pm

Hi Dave

A great idea to look at these questions afresh. Here they are...


Six questions

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) What makes things happen? How does it work?


Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Love

Jon

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:07 pm

Hi Jon,

Well here goes, let's see what happens.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
It used to really seem as though there was a separate self - now much less so.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It is a program running in the mind that claims to be in charge and largely in control of life's events. It is coded to become forceful and significant when it feels under threat.
Now it feels like it's lost control and I feel alternately amused by it when it stamps it foot and sad for it when it slinks away, defeated by my amusement.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I feel strong, now that I realise that I don't need a self to rise up and defend me. Life is just fine as it is and there is more contentment and peace without the niggling Gollum mithering away. There is still the voice in the head but it's much easier to ignore it.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
There was no one last thing this time, just a gradual washing away of the ego. This process is ongoing and incomplete.
5) What makes things happen? How does it work?
I don't know, but there's less curiosity about the mechanics of it as there was. It just works.
Describe decision & give examples from experience.
A decision is made and the remnants of self sometimes lays claim to that decision.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Things happen and the remnants of self sometimes claims prior intent about them.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.
There is no free will, choice or control and yet the remnants of self sometimes lays claim to them.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I'm not sure that I'm responsible for anything, yet I find myself taking responsibility for things.
I think that's because I don't care any more about taking blame and it's so much simpler than trying to prove that I'm not at fault.
6) Anything to add?
I'd like to repeat my continuing gratitude for your patience with such a difficult and intractable client.
You have helped me a great deal.
Much credit for any progress also goes to others around me in my non-duality meetings and to teachers in books and on Youtube. Life is really coming together as I wave goodbye to the self. (N.B. It keeps coming back for one last hug)

Dave
For the joy of it all

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:44 pm

Hi Dave,


Let's look at the first question
. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


It used to really seem as though there was a separate self - now much less so.
This could sound like a move in the right direction

But It's not the sort of question that leaves wiggle- room.

It isn't really a question inviting commentary about personal progress or personal experience.

It's as blunt as asking if there's really a tooth fairy that is an entity, that turns up to leave money in exchange for teeth....or not?

Can the answer to this be "it used to seem so but now less so" ?

Do you see this?


Love

Jon

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:32 pm

Hi Jon,
It's as blunt as asking if there's really a tooth fairy that is an entity, that turns up to leave money in exchange for teeth....or not?

Can the answer to this be "it used to seem so but now less so" ?
I'd love to give you the answer you are looking for here but in all honesty I'm not there yet.

Sticking to your metaphor:
I used to be convinced that there was a tooth fairy because people around me told me there was one and it did not occur to me to doubt it. Now that I have run into several people who tell me there is no tooth fairy I am looking at the evidence and having serious doubts. I am not yet fully convinced that I can drop the idea of the tooth fairy but the more I investigate, the more things are moving that way.

Dave
For the joy of it all

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JonathanR
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby JonathanR » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:19 pm

Hi Dave

. I'd love to give you the answer you are looking for here but in all honesty I'm not there yet.
Just in case you imagine that I want you to give a particular answer, that's not the case. That you can't say for sure that there's no self is what it is.
. Sticking to your metaphor:
I used to be convinced that there was a tooth fairy because people around me told me there was one and it did not occur to me to doubt it. Now that I have run into several people who tell me there is no tooth fairy I am looking at the evidence and having serious doubts. I am not yet fully convinced that I can drop the idea of the tooth fairy but the more I investigate, the more things are moving that way.
I certainly won't be trying to convince you of anything, least of all that the tooth fairy isn't a real entity. That's the sort of thing that gets noticed along the way, somehow and when it is noticed there really isn't much left-over doubt about it.

Ours has been a long conversation that has gone round a series of pointers and answers, more or less, for quite some time. There's nothing new that I can add to what I've asked you. You could try reading through the conversation from the beginning. Rereading these can be quite helpful.

Otherwise please feel free to put in a request for another guide, if you feel that that would help, or I can ask guides if anyone is currently in s position to continue the conversation with you ? (There are currently fourteen peole waiting to be answered by a guide at the Gate).

Lots of love and best wishes

Jon

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DaveBadger
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Re: Walking through the locked door

Postby DaveBadger » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:16 am

Thank you Jon.

With love truly

Dave
For the joy of it all


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