Love&Liberate

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experienceit
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Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:08 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
By no self, it means that the 'self' is just an illusion. In reality there is no self, but most of the people are deluded by this illusion (maya).
The separate self thinks or wants to control everything and has its own interests.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to see for myself what exactly is the truth. By seeing I mean experience myself. Sometimes when I try to find myself the 'I' I am unable to locate it anywhere in me. But still that does not confirm that the self doesn't exist. So I hope LU can give some clarity and help me see things as they are.
Am I that aware presence or being or silence? Well I am not sure about it although I have experienced it sometimes.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope the guide would help me cross the gateless gate.
The old beliefs might disappear.
Not keeping pre conceived notions would like to go with the flow.
The guided conversation seems to be a good way to see through illusion.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Been meditating from the last year or so. Started reading spiritual books three years ago, I have read Osho, Adyashanti, Mooji, Papaji and regularly listening to various gurus and teachers. Sometimes I feel thoughtless state or very less thoughts or maybe presence. The mind oscillates from being very quiet to very noisy and its sudden.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 10

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:55 am

Hello experienceit.
It is a pleasure to meet you here.

My original language is not english, so forgive me for the unperfect grammar.

Have you navigated through the content here, so you know how this works?

If you do any practising at the moment, could you please leave all reading, following and practising aside for the time of your looking here. This helps you to stay focused on your ownn experience.
Also posting here daily, keeps the momentum on.
If something comes up and you can't, please inform. I will do the same.

We can have the conversation here, if this is fine with you.

Warm hugs
Multipass
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:23 am

Hello Multipass,

So Nice to hear from you.

Don't worry about English grammar as it's not my first language too.

Yes I have downloaded the app, found the quotes really amazing and wonderful they help you for self inquiry. As, they give you a deep insight. I found them very helpful, unfortunately the app's not working on the laptop, will try to sort it out.

Apart from that I went to some content on the website but not much as I wanted to experience Inquiry first hand. Yes, I will reply daily to keep the momentum.
Happy and eager to begin.

Thank you & love
Experienceit

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Hello Experienceit,

Great to hear you are ready.
In the beginning, it is good to know few things.

1. I will ask you questions and you answer them with 100% honesty. There is no right or wrong answers. The honesty is for you. There might come up different kind of emotions, but don´t worry, be honest about them too. When answering, please use the quote “ function, so it is more clear to follow the conversation.

2. LOOKING means investigating the Direct Experience (DE)from each NOW moment. It is not thinking about what is seen or known intellectually, but really LOOKING at what is, and what is not, with your 5 senses. It can be called the Raw experience, meaning what is directly observed through the senses, before any thoughts telling the descriptions come in to the picture.

-seeing
-smelling
-hearing
-feeling sensations
-tasting
and then what can be found is: thoughts and emotions.

Looking this way, you will be able to separate the real experience, from the stories that thinking offers.
This might be difficult at first, but with good focus, you can figure it out quickly.

3. The goal is to search and LOOK deeply, IF you can find a separate entity called “I”.
If you don´t understand something, don´t hesitate to ask.

4. We are all individuals and it is better to leave all expectations behind. They only disturb the clear seeing.

So let´s start.

There is no separate “I,me, self” existing at all in reality. There has never been one.
- How does this make you feel with your own words?

Enjoy the journey and let me know what all arises.

Warm hugs
Multipass
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:58 pm

Hello Experienceit,

Great to hear you are ready.
In the beginning, it is good to know few things.

1. I will ask you questions and you answer them with 100% honesty. There is no right or wrong answers. The honesty is for you. There might come up different kind of emotions, but don´t worry, be honest about them too. When answering, please use the quote “ function, so it is more clear to follow the conversation.

2. LOOKING means investigating the Direct Experience (DE)from each NOW moment. It is not thinking about what is seen or known intellectually, but really LOOKING at what is, and what is not, with your 5 senses. It can be called the Raw experience, meaning what is directly observed through the senses, before any thoughts telling the descriptions come in to the picture.

-seeing
-smelling
-hearing
-feeling sensations
-tasting
and then what can be found is: thoughts and emotions.

Looking this way, you will be able to separate the real experience, from the stories that thinking offers.
This might be difficult at first, but with good focus, you can figure it out quickly.
So you are trying to convey that this is how I should look at things by observing them through five senses and followed by thoughts resulting in emotions. Ok, will try to look with the method you suggested. Thank You

[
b]3.
[/b] The goal is to search and LOOK deeply, IF you can find a separate entity called “I”.
If you don´t understand something, don´t hesitate to ask.

4. We are all individuals and it is better to leave all expectations behind. They only disturb the clear seeing.

So let´s start.

There is no separate “I,me, self” existing at all in reality. There has never been one.
- How does this make you feel with your own words?
Well,what I can understand is either we are all connected like we are all energy after all, Everything is made up of matter, which is ultimately energy(electrons,protons,neutrons). So whatever we do think, act, speak is a form of energy, which will have an effect on everything around us. So the question of separate self does not arise. Well this is sort of a quantum physics perspective.

Otherwise, I have heard that the separate self is just an illusion but does not exist in reality. So when I meditated and tried to find the I or self, I was not able to locate it in my body,no matter how much I tried to find the self. But then, if the self is just an illusion , why am I stuck in this body.

How am I not this body when I can only do things with this body like typing,swimming, having a cup of tea. I am not beyond this body. Am I?

Well not able to locate the self, and cant think I am beyond this. Very confusing state to be actually.

Thank you very much.
Enjoy the journey and let me know what all arises.

Warm hugs
Multipass

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:26 pm

Hello Experienceit,

Thank you for your reply. You don´t need to “quote” everything, but only the parts that you answer to separately.
I show it to you in this post.

Please focus on the questions asked and try to answer directly to them.
You did not answer yet for this one:
There is no separate “I,me, self” existing at all in reality. There has never been one.
- How does this make you FEEL with your own words?
With warm hugs
~Multipass~
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Hello Multipass

Sorry for the quotes as I am new with the forum.

I did answer the question, do you want a different answer, if yes please do tell me, In the meanwhile here's what I wrote based on my understanding.

There is no separate “I,me, self” existing at all in reality. There has never been one.
- How does this make you FEEL with your own words?
Well,what I can understand is either we are all connected like we are all energy after all, Everything is made up of matter, which is ultimately energy(electrons,protons,neutrons). So whatever we do think, act, speak is a form of energy, which will have an effect on everything around us. So the question of separate self does not arise. Well this is sort of a quantum physics perspective.

Otherwise, I have heard that the separate self is just an illusion but does not exist in reality. So when I meditated and tried to find the I or self, I was not able to locate it in my body,no matter how much I tried to find the self. But then, if the self is just an illusion , why am I stuck in this body.

How am I not this body when I can only do things with this body like typing,swimming, having a cup of tea. I am not beyond this body. Am I?

Well not able to locate the self, and cant think I am beyond this. Very confusing state to be actually.

Thank you very much.

Experienceit

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:59 pm

Hi Experienceit,

Please look at the question again.

We are looking for the immediate experience, what happens when you read the sentence.
Describe feelings, thoughts, body sensations.

Forget for a moment everything you have learned.

Is there an "I"?
What is stuck inside the body?
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:43 pm

Hello Multipass,

Is there an I?

Well it does feel like there is an 'I' which is the body, my name and I am identified with it. Like this is me my body, my thoughts, the way I understand things. On the other hand when I ask this question to myself the mind becomes quiet I cannot really understand this question not intellectually but in a different way. Like there is no answer to this question. Although the question seems very simple but there's no answer to it.

What is stuck inside the body?

Maybe consciousness or awareness, because I can feel things inside my body. Like If I focus on breathe, I can feel it.
If I pay attention to the ears I can sense them. So I can say that awareness is stuck inside the body.

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:04 pm

Hi Experienceit,
On the other hand when I ask this question to myself the mind becomes quiet I cannot really understand this question not intellectually but in a different way. Like there is no answer to this question. Although the question seems very simple but there's no answer to it.
Good work. Now you are looking.
Silence is not an absence of answer. That is the answer. Keep asking the question and see how mind gets quiet, then thoughts come in.
Look some more on this one, until you are sure.
I can feel things inside my body.
Yes, there is a lot going on inside the body.
What is that claims the body mine?
What is that owns this body?

Investigate these some more, and answer me what is real for you.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:43 am

Silence is not an absence of answer. That is the answer. Keep asking the question and see how mind gets quiet, then thoughts come in.
Look some more on this one, until you are sure.
Can you please clarify this to me. How can silence become the answer.
So if I ask the question "is there an I?" or "who am I?"
the mind becomes quiet it cannot understand whats's been asked.
I feel a little uncomfortable with this, I do fall in silence for sometime and yes later thoughts do come in. But how is silence the answer. I am not able to get this, would be thankful if you can clarify.
What is that claims the body mine?
What is that owns this body?
Well, the self or I think the mind claims that it is his body. Yes there is a sense of 'I' that claims the body. Like this is my hand I can wave with it or type with it. I can do whatever I want to do with my hand. So there is a sense of I involved with it.

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:47 pm

Hi Experienceit, great to hear from you.
Can you please clarify this to me. How can silence become the answer.
So if I ask the question "is there an I?" or "who am I?"
the mind becomes quiet it cannot understand whats's been asked.
But how is silence the answer. I am not able to get this, would be thankful if you can clarify.
If you are in a place, where no sounds can be heard, what is the answer to a question “what do you hear”?
"The silence is not an absence of an answer. It is the answer."
Try again, ask the “is there I?” question, and watch what happens.
See how mind gets blank. Rest in that. It´s not that mind can not understand what is being asked, it is revelation that there is no one there to answer.
Yes there is a sense of 'I' that claims the body. Like this is my hand I can wave with it or type with it. I can do whatever I want to do with my hand. So there is a sense of I involved with it.
Let´s look at the sense.
What is a sense or sensation?
Where is it sensed?
Look only at the sensation and remove all descriptions telling it to mean something, or to belong to someone.
Only find where it is felt.

Come back with what you find. Relax and surrender into this.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:51 am

If you are in a place, where no sounds can be heard, what is the answer to a question “what do you hear”?
When the surroundings are quiet all I can hear is Silence
"The silence is not an absence of an answer. It is the answer."
Try again, ask the “is there I?” question, and watch what happens.
See how mind gets blank. Rest in that. It´s not that mind can not understand what is being asked, it is revelation that there is no one there to answer.
Yes I am able to rest in the silence, and it does feel good for sometime before the thoughts start coming. But if there is no one to answer, who is asking the question. There must be someone who is asking, how can we deny that.
Let´s look at the sense.
What is a sense or sensation?
Where is it sensed?
Look only at the sensation and remove all descriptions telling it to mean something, or to belong to someone.
Only find where it is felt.
To find where it is felt, I can feel all over my body. Yet on the other hand not anywhere specifically.

Thank you

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Multipass
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby Multipass » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:53 pm

Hello again,

Yes, it is nice and calm when the mind is silent.
the thoughts start coming. But if there is no one to answer, who is asking the question. There must be someone who is asking, how can we deny that.
You said it directly. “Thoughts start coming.”
Does that need someone to make that happen, or is it just happening?
Thoughts arising and leaving. Look at that for a while.
Same with the questions.
How are questions different from thoughts?
Words after words, creating sentences.

Look now at “I am thinking” claim.

Is it really “I” that is thinking?
Can you stop thinking from happening?
Try it. Stop thinking completely for next 1 minute. See what is happening.
If the “I” is in charge, you should be able to do that.

This goes with the sensations too. You told the sensing is felt in the body, so does it need an “I”
doing the sensing, or is sensing just happening trough the body?.
Is there a controller, that can stop the sensing?

Investigate these by looking and let me know what is revealed.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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experienceit
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Re: Love&Liberate

Postby experienceit » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:14 pm

Hello Multipass,
You said it directly. “Thoughts start coming.”
Does that need someone to make that happen, or is it just happening?
Thoughts arising and leaving. Look at that for a while.
Same with the questions.
How are questions different from thoughts?
Words after words, creating sentences.
Yes, the thoughts are arising and leaving, the questions are not different from thoughts. So when the thought arises, "who am I?" there is no one asking the question, its just a thought arising. Wow!! what a great revelation. From where do these thoughts arise?
Look now at “I am thinking” claim.
Well again as soon as I look at that the mind becomes quiet for sometime and then thoughts start rushing.
Is it really “I” that is thinking?
Can you stop thinking from happening?
Try it. Stop thinking completely for next 1 minute. See what is happening.
If the “I” is in charge, you should be able to do that.
No I cannot stop thoughts from coming in.
1 min is too long I can't stop them for like 30 seconds.
It is completely true, sometimes thoughts that we don't want also come.

I have a doubt, well we can't stop thinking but sometimes, not always we can decide what to think about. Say I want to think about oranges. So, is there someone who is choosing.
is sensing just happening trough the body?.
Is there a controller, that can stop the sensing?
Well most of it seems like, no there is no controller. But I think we do have a choice sometimes like I can decide to have shower or go for a run and alter the sensations, feeling of the body.

Thank you very much
Experienceit


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