Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

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Sherri
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Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:02 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the 'self' is nothing more then a construct of the mind, formed in childhood, grown with each labeled experience and identified with throughout life. Life when viewed through the dirty glass window of 'self' is a total lie.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am so fed up with identifying with and getting pulled into something that I know is not real, that doesn't even feel like 'me' but rather I feel at the mercy of. I feel so ready to let everything go and have felt that way for a long time, just have not known 'how' to do it.

With working with Gateless Gatecrashers I have had moments of seeing with clarity that there is no self, laughing at the absurdity of it all and what I have wasted my life believing in, feeling a profound relief that I no longer had to waste energy believing and adhering to a lie, feeling a sudden burst of wild joy in my stomach.....then Santa pulls his beard back on again and there he is again! For want of a better way of putting it.

Strangely enough for the first time ever I have had actual clarity and ease in being able to follow long held 'issues' that arise back to a source. Was never able to do that before ever and therefore never 'got anywhere'. Don't know what has happened but 'something' has changed since working with Gateless Gatecrashers and I want to take this right through now and make that 'shift' once and for all. I want to see the truth once and for all, not just glimpses.

So I am looking for help...a prod in the right direction...an explanation perhaps of something that had me confused...a technique that may help me get through that block...from people who are in/have been in the same boat.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
It is so easy to get diverted off track and complicate things unnecessarily, leading to confusion. Recently I actually managed to do that and get myself thoroughly diverted for a few days in examining and writing about how my 'self' was formed in the early years. So much so that I forgot the main point..that it doesn't actually exist! Having someone who can point out what I should be focused on and keep things on track, offer guidance and techniques on looking would be really helpful.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Worked my way through religion, all manner of spiritual practices like the IAM teachings, Eckhart Tolle, Gary Van Warmerdam and Jed Mckenna....I have dropped it all. With the Jed Mckenna teachings I isolated myself off and wrote....and wrote...and wrote...a load of mind babble that led me no where. I now realize that I was writing down thoughts as they appeared from no where, which is just hilarious looking at it now.

I now don't follow anything in particular, do not practice meditation or follow any kind of spiritual practice or ritual whatsoever. At this point I have zero idea what is 'true' and what is 'not true', at least not in any way that really 'sticks'. That has stemmed since working on the Jed Mckenna teachings, that left me dangling in mid air with no idea how to proceed.

I have just completed reading through Gateless Gatecrashers.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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forgetmenot
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:50 am

Hi Sherri,

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know if you are okay with me being your guide and that you have read the disclaimer and so on, and we can then start the exploration.

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:44 pm

Hi Kay,

Thank you very much! I have read carefully through all the links that you posted and am ready. I would be honored if you could guide me please. :)

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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:25 am

Hey Sherri,

Thank you for reading through the links :)

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. The key is that you really have to LOOK. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions in blue text and to answer them individually as well please...and remember to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:00 am

Hi Kay, here are my answers...
How will life change?
I literally don't know how life will change, if it changes at all. I thought that I had zero expectations of life changing at all, but looking deeper I can see a background hope that life will become 'easier' through this process, through detachment to the 'story of me', resulting in less suffering.
How will you change?
Changes such as not being drawn into fear and drama as much, and therefore being more relaxed and less full of fear. More going with the flow of life rather then fighting it. Actually letting life do it's life thing. However I am aware that this is the first step, after this there is the clearing period where things will come up. So no big sudden change occurring at all and the work continues afterwards.
What will be different?
Nothing at all. I will be living the exact same life, doing the exact same things. Same thoughts floating by, same emotions coming and going, same desires and dreams.
What is missing?
I am not sure, I feel so very, very close to seeing what actually is. Like I am standing right at a doorway, yet some kind of block is holding me back from seeing the truth. I can actually feel a block/wall literally preventing me from going 'too far' in my looking.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
To be able to identify and see through the resistance and whatever is keeping me from seeing the truth of self. To hopefully actually reach the goal of permanently seeing no self, rather then just tantalizing glimpses.

Thanks!

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forgetmenot
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:31 am

Hello Sherri,
How will life change?
I literally don't know how life will change, if it changes at all. I thought that I had zero expectations of life changing at all, but looking deeper I can see a background hope that life will become 'easier' through this process, through detachment to the 'story of me', resulting in less suffering.
Great to become aware of expectations…as they are what can hinder this exploration, and can hide the fact that the realisation of there being no inherent self has happened as there is an idea of how that should look and feel.

There is no detachment from ‘your’ ‘story about a ‘me’, as there is no attachment to ‘your’ stories or to the story about an “I/me” labelled Sherri.
Your = thought story
Attachment = thought story, riding piggyback on the 'your' thought story.
Thought referring to thought. Simply notice the story about the story.
See if you're actually in it. And see if it's actually yours. And this is what we will be exploring, to see if there is a someone/something that has a story!
How will you change?
Changes such as not being drawn into fear and drama as much, and therefore being more relaxed and less full of fear. More going with the flow of life rather then fighting it. Actually letting life do it's life thing. However I am aware that this is the first step, after this there is the clearing period where things will come up. So no big sudden change occurring at all and the work continues afterwards.
Stories will be seen for what they are…including the stories about fear and drama happening to a ‘me’. And yes, this will take time. How much time is anyone’s guess as LOOKING still needs to continue consistently and diligently after the realisation of there being no self…as it is the LOOKING that cements the realisation which then brings the clear seeing of the stories about a me and what is happening to a me. Fear, suffering and drama do not disappear forever, they are appearance that appear in/as THIS but it is just clearly seen what they are ie stories.
What will be different?
Nothing at all. I will be living the exact same life, doing the exact same things. Same thoughts floating by, same emotions coming and going, same desires and dreams.
Yes…with the one difference is that you will see it for what it actually is and not how thought describes what is.
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
To be able to identify and see through the resistance and whatever is keeping me from seeing the truth of self. To hopefully actually reach the goal of permanently seeing no self, rather then just tantalizing glimpses.
Resistance is just another form of fear….a defense mechanism, and it is normal as there is fear about seeing and/or not seeing and what seeing actually looks like and what it means etc… because it is unknown, although you will come to see that there is nothing that is unknown.

The label ‘resistance’ is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of resistance.
The sensation labelled ‘resistance’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of resistance.
The image labelled ‘me/body/I’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of an “I” who is resisting.
The thoughts ABOUT ‘resistance’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of resistance.

So, in actual experience can ‘resistance’ be found, or what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT resistance?

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:02 am

Hi Kay,

Unfortunately I haven't had the time to sit down with this today, due to an unexpectedly chaotic day. However tomorrow I will far more time and can sit down and give it the attention it requires.

Thanks,
Sherri

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forgetmenot
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:39 am

Thanks for letting me know, Sherri....very much appreciated.

K
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:56 am

Resistance is just another form of fear….a defense mechanism, and it is normal as there is fear about seeing and/or not seeing and what seeing actually looks like and what it means etc… because it is unknown, although you will come to see that there is nothing that is unknown.

I lay down for a few quiet moments to look into this...'resistance'. I called it closer so that I could examine it and it turned out to be 'fear'...of non existence.

The label ‘resistance’ is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of resistance.

Yes, I believe I can see this. Thought is what actually applies/is a label, therefore the AE is of that particular thought.

The sensation labelled ‘resistance’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of resistance.

I believe that I understand...feeling 'resistance' is not actually experiencing 'resistance' itself, but rather the experience of a feeling itself....

The image labelled ‘me/body/I’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of an “I” who is resisting.

So it is the experience of just an image, rather then experiencing an actual being resisting.

The thoughts ABOUT ‘resistance’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of resistance.

Yes, I can see that. Not actually experiencing 'resistance' itself, just experiencing thoughts about it.

So, in actual experience can ‘resistance’ be found, or what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT resistance?

In Actual Experience 'resistance' does not exist, because there is no real experience of 'resistance' that can be identified. It is all experiencing these other things.


Love,
Sherri

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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:52 am

Hello Sherri,

You did some great LOOKING! Nicely done!
Resistance is just another form of fear….a defense mechanism, and it is normal as there is fear about seeing and/or not seeing and what seeing actually looks like and what it means etc… because it is unknown, although you will come to see that there is nothing that is unknown.
I lay down for a few quiet moments to look into this...'resistance'. I called it closer so that I could examine it and it turned out to be 'fear'...of non existence.

Yes, and that is a normal ‘fear’ response with this exploration. However, there has NEVER been a separate self, so there is no one/no thing to disappear into non-existence.

When Santa Claus was realised to be a fictional character…did he or Christmas become non-existent? He is still seen on street corners at Christmas time. Christmas comes and goes and gifts are still exchanged and carols are still sung. The difference is, is that it is known that Santa is just a story….and so is the separate self.

So, you looked at the breakdown of ‘resistance’...exchange word to ‘fear’ or 'anxiety' (or whatever the feeling is) and LOOK and see if you can find anyone/anything in actual ‘fear’.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:31 pm

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
No there is no 'apple' there, only the image/colour and thoughts about that image that identify and label it as an 'apple'. 'Apple' is nothing more then a label, a word used to identify a particular object. So 'apple' cannot be found in actual experience at all
However, is an apple actually known?
No as 'apple' is merely a label for a group of experiences that actually exist. It cannot be actually known as it does not exist.
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Okay will do and will report back. :)

Love,
Sherri

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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:56 pm

Hi Sherri,

Lovely responses to the apple exercise. I will wait until I hear from you re breaking down daily activities into AE.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:48 am

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.
Hi Kay,

I did not have as much time to dedicate to this as I wanted to today, however, when I was able to I grabbed a moment to concentrate on doing it and break things down in this manner, like when eating a sandwich, when brushing my teeth..

Anyway I was busy 'breaking down' my toothbrush and I had the strangest realization of...how to describe...like I was not even an 'observer' of what was going on, there was no 'I' there. That present moment was all there was. Not even the next second was real or the last second was real.... It was all just happening/flowing right now.....my body and all existence was just operating without me, flowing/doing without me....not even the 'thoughts about things' were 'me'. I cannot say 'I' was watching because that is just so not true, there was no 'I' to watch,

Am looking forward to working more with this 'breaking down' exercise tomorrow. That was a world away from what I had previously experienced as 'moments of no-self' and made such previous moments seem utterly false. That was REAL non existence, literal nothing there, nothing ever actually been there ever, not even peace, though the absence of anything was itself a kind of 'peaceful'.

Was not expecting that. Don't know what to make of it, just continuing on with the exercise.

Love,
Sherri

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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:21 am

Hi Sherri,
Anyway I was busy 'breaking down' my toothbrush and I had the strangest realization of...how to describe...like I was not even an 'observer' of what was going on, there was no 'I' there. That present moment was all there was. Not even the next second was real or the last second was real.... It was all just happening/flowing right now.....my body and all existence was just operating without me, flowing/doing without me....not even the 'thoughts about things' were 'me'. I cannot say 'I' was watching because that is just so not true, there was no 'I' to watch,
Wonderful! So now, we continue to see how the structure of a separate self is kept in place..so to speak. And please don't have the expectation that the realisation that you had is something that is to be achieved on a permanent basis. What has been seen cannot be unseen, no matter what thoughts appear saying the opposite!

When you look at the following picture...what do you see? A vase or faces? When they have been seen, they cannot be unseen and you will see both!

Image

I look forward to hearing from you about your day of breaking down activities into actual experience.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Sherri
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Re: Want to see the truth of 'self', once and for all.

Postby Sherri » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:01 am

Hi Kay,

When you look at the following picture...what do you see? A vase or faces?

I think that I have seen that picture before a long time ago which would explain why I could instantly see both the faces and the vase...so absolutely as you said...what has been seen cannot be unseen. It was very interesting that after all this time I can still see it instantly.

Sorry super long post ahead because today has been exceptionally...different......

I have had the quietest day today that I can ever remember having.

I got up today minus the usual depression that I always feel on waking up and then usually jolly myself out of. Felt light/empty/different but really good. It felt like nothing had changed, but everything had changed. It was the strangest thing....it was sooo quiet. I literally wandered around my apartment trying to figure out why it was so quiet and what exactly was quiet. lol.

Outside my apartment the normal traffic and people noise and chaos as always. As I walked to work the same noise and chaos... but my mind was/is so still and quiet...I had finally figured out and could see that there was a huge empty space in my mind, something big was missing....but what? lol I couldn't figure it out and just accepted it, enjoyed it and went about the daily business.

I walked around or stood still enjoying the absolute silence in my mind and watching everything with interest, yet having not one thought or opinion 'about anything'. Not one. I have never been so 'present in the moment' in my whole life, then I have been today...all day. Everything just happening around me.

Something was missing, but I just could not figure out what. I figured it plain didn't matter. Six hours later, lol, and it finally suddenly hit me what was missing as I walked into town...there were no 'I' thoughts. The barrage of 'I' thoughts that would usually be there...gone! There was no thought about 'I' or 'me' at all! Usually there would be a barrage of thoughts about 'me', mostly self deprecating ones that I would engage in an endless exhausting battle with, as I would try to negate those negative thoughts with positive ones.

It was utterly hilarious that it took me that long to figure out what was missing. Lol

My mind is still so utterly quiet...really quite a strange feeling. A ton of crap has just vanished literally overnight. But it's so nice and peaceful and makes me realize just how exhausting all the chaos was before.

Thoughts arose sometimes throughout the day...thoughts that at one time told a story about being tired. But I can see it is just that...a story. There was no actual feeling of being tired in the body, so no actual experience. Just a group of thoughts about being tired, should be tired...no basis in reality.

In fact that was the first time I recognized a 'real' story, which turned out to be so different from what my mental image of what a 'self story' was. If that makes sense. Just like last night's experience of 'no self' turned out to be completely different from any previous experiences/glimpses of 'no self, what a story is turned out the same. All not what I thought it would be like.

There were some invitations to get drawn into a group of thoughts about something, but I could see it for what it was and even though initially one time I did almost get drawn in briefly, it was not for long.

I saw a huge crowd of people walking toward me...there was the colour/image, there was a group of thoughts about it that came up but were seen to be a story. It was very clear in looking around what was real, Actual Experience and what is labels and 'thoughts about' something.

I have no idea what happened and am not putting any kind of expectation or labeling on this though there is a distant fuzzy concern that arises sometimes that this won't last. I just know that my body feels so much better, like it isn't getting attacked with emotion and negativity constantly. Feels like a huge load off of it. My mind is still so...quiet and everything feels okay, as it is.

Love,
Sherri


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