Revealing the mystery

[Mysterybox]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
For me it means that I would SEE through this illusion of self and would be able to let go of the indentification to this persona, the story and be free. I'm hoping to be in a state, that "my" reality would be a clear knowledge that I am just a thought, nothing else and that the world is "operating" and it has nothing to do with me.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for a final push or kick in a butt. I feel this fight within me: there is the greatest longing for truth and still there is this lazy egomind that of course doesn't want this. With a guide I am lacking excuses, even though I don't expect nobody to do the work for me. I'm more than ready for this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I feel that I have the KNOWLEDGE of the fact, that there is no separate self, no individual being, no me but I can not SEE that, yet. I'm hoping to get the pointers and questions that help me to move to a right direction and clear instructions of what/where to look. I've had "guides" to hold my hand and stroke my hair and it didn't take me anywhere, so now I need a relentless guide.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been on a "spiritual path" for over 15 yrs and gone through yoga, healing, angels, channeling, meditation, cults etc. No I'm off with everything and this is my main task.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 10

[forgetmenot]

Hi Mystery,

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Just let me know if you are okay with me being your guide and that you have read the disclaimer and so on, and we can then start the exploration.

Love, Kay

[Mysterybox]

Dear Kay,

Thank you for your message and for offering to be my guide! I am so happy!

I have read the disclaimer and FAQ and checked how to use the quote. So I'm ready to go! So exciting!!

Love, Mystery

[forgetmenot]

HI Mystery,

I have read the disclaimer and FAQ and checked how to use the quote. So I'm ready to go! So exciting!!

Wonderful! What is your name?

Please read the following thoroughly.

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. The key is that you really have to LOOK. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

What is LOOKING? ‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.


To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers about what expectations you have) could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Please answer the questions highlighted in blue text individually, and remember to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
xx

[Mysterybox]

Dear Kay,

Hi, I'm Sanna :)

So, here we go.

How will life change?

I'm assuming that life becomes more simple. Life will happen at the present moment without moving back and forth to the past and the future.

How will you change?

I will see that my life has only been a story, a thought and in reflection to that I won't judge the coming events but stay in a neutral state. I will be peacefully present.

What will be different?

I'm hoping no more drama, suffering, searching. Just peace and clarity.

What is missing?

Do you mean now? I feel that what is missing is the final step that allows me to see through this illusion of I/separate being.

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

I would like to get help to get to the gate and through it. Some part of me is somehow worried that it is not possible for me of that the transition is not permanent. Uh...

Love, Sanna

[forgetmenot]

Hi Sanna,

It is expectations and fears that hinder this exploration, so these questions were about both of us becoming aware of your expectations and fears of what seeing through the separate self should/may look like and what it will hopefully bring. There has never been a separate self so life may or may not change, but seeing through the separate self is a realisation…a recognition and not a change in state of mind or emotions or of life.

Just to reiterate what this exploration is not about…I am reposting this link

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


When you read my responses, let me know what appears…ie fear, anger, resistance, disappointment, frustration, joy, relief…whatever.

How will life change?

I'm assuming that life becomes more simple. Life will happen at the present moment without moving back and forth to the past and the future.

Since there is no one controlling or actually living life…life is simple, as life is just doing what life does….lifing! Past and future are a concept, a belief in time…there is time, therefore there is no past and future…there is only ever NOW.

How will you change?

I will see that my life has only been a story, a thought and in reflection to that I won't judge the coming events but stay in a neutral state. I will be peacefully present.

There is no separate self who is living a life….there is no ‘my’ life and yes, the ‘my life’ is just a story, just as is the idea of a ‘me/my/I’. There is no separate self to become “neutral” or “peacefully present” either. Whatever appearances appear (ie thought, sound, sensations etc) are just that, an appearance in/of THIS/experience/awareness that come and go.

What will be different?

I'm hoping no more drama, suffering, searching. Just peace and clarity.

The seeking falls away once the realisation of no separate self occurs, and there is clarity, but the “peace” you are wanting, the idea that nothing will affect you anymore is just a concept that comes and goes like all concepts. It is to LOOK and see what it is exactly that can be affected by suffering and drama that is the key.

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

I would like to get help to get to the gate and through it. Some part of me is somehow worried that it is not possible for me of that the transition is not permanent. Uh...

The paradox is, is that there is no separate self to get through the gate...but there is an appearing story of a someone who is wanting to do this! There is no ‘me’ who can be worried about anything. Worrying, as a concept, may or may not continue to appear, but there is no separate self who is worrying. There has never been a separate self…there wasn’t a separate self before this exploration started, there isn’t one now and there won’t be one tomorrow either!

Love, Kay
xx

[Mysterybox]

Hi Kay,

Thank you for your message.

It is expectations and fears that hinder this exploration, so these questions were about both of us becoming aware of your expectations and fears of what seeing through the separate self should/may look like and what it will hopefully bring.

Wow, really intense fears popping up..
- Fear that I'm going to fail. I think that this comes from the past experiences: trying to find the balance/peace/happiness etc from some spiritual practices/paths and always failing, of course.
- Fear that everyone else succeeds but me, so then I'm left alone.
- Fear that I'm not smart/cleaver/wise enough to do this.
- Fear is trying to choke me when writing this: saying I'm a loser, childish, soooo in a wrong place. Almost womiting :/

Seems like I'm afraid failing the process. I don't know if there is fear about seeing through the separate self. Or are they linked..?

Since there is no one controlling or actually living life…life is simple, as life is just doing what life does….lifing! Past and future are a concept, a belief in time…there is time, therefore there is no past and future…there is only ever NOW.

With this one I feel relief.

How will you change?
I will see that my life has only been a story, a thought and in reflection to that I won't judge the coming events but stay in a neutral state. I will be peacefully present.

There is no separate self who is living a life….there is no ‘my’ life and yes, the ‘my life’ is just a story, just as is the idea of a ‘me/my/I’. There is no separate self to become “neutral” or “peacefully present” either. Whatever appearances appear (ie thought, sound, sensations etc) are just that, an appearance in/of THIS/experience/awareness that come and go.

I feel my mind is tangled with the "correct terms". Makes me feel stupid and ignorant. It like trying to explain fire to someone who has never seen fire.. I've been pressing the teeth against each other all day, I feel the fear and some resistance inside my head. Wanting to stop this and just "go home". Am I being too honest?

What will be different?
I'm hoping no more drama, suffering, searching. Just peace and clarity.

The seeking falls away once the realisation of no separate self occurs, and there is clarity, but the “peace” you are wanting, the idea that nothing will affect you anymore is just a concept that comes and goes like all concepts. It is to LOOK and see what it is exactly that can be affected by suffering and drama that is the key.

That fact that seeking falls away feels a relief. But there is frustration and fear; will I make it? Darn, headache..

What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?
I would like to get help to get to the gate and through it. Some part of me is somehow worried that it is not possible for me of that the transition is not permanent. Uh...

The paradox is, is that there is no separate self to get through the gate...but there is an appearing story of a someone who is wanting to do this! There is no ‘me’ who can be worried about anything. Worrying, as a concept, may or may not continue to appear, but there is no separate self who is worrying. There has never been a separate self…there wasn’t a separate self before this exploration started, there isn’t one now and there won’t be one tomorrow either!

This makes me want to erase all that I wrote! Feeling really messed up. Where should I start looking? Feeling like a smallest worm on Earth.

Hoping you have patience and time with me.

Love, S

ps. is it beneficial to read the text over and over again before posting? How "well organized" and sensible the text should be?

[Mysterybox]

Hi again :)

I was "playing" with the feeling of fear, looking what is behind that. I felt it more in my heart than in my mind. There was this need to "accomplish this task", be a "good performer", need to complete this with "good grades". Like this would be some school/work task that needs to get done!

By sensing/allowing the fear to be, acknowledging the need to "control the process" it diminished and faded away. Don't know if it is all gone but at the moment I feel that whatever comes, how ever this goes, it goes as it should. No need to push.

Hugs, Sanna

[forgetmenot]

Hey Sanna,

Wow, really intense fears popping up..
- Fear that I'm going to fail. I think that this comes from the past experiences: trying to find the balance/peace/happiness etc from some spiritual practices/paths and always failing, of course.
- Fear that everyone else succeeds but me, so then I'm left alone.
- Fear that I'm not smart/cleaver/wise enough to do this.
- Fear is trying to choke me when writing this: saying I'm a loser, childish, soooo in a wrong place. Almost womiting :/ Seems like I'm afraid failing the process. I don't know if there is fear about seeing through the separate self. Or are they linked..?

This is normal. The fear or not seeing and the fear of seeing…fear of the seeming known based past experience and fear of the unknown.

Let’s have a look at the idea of fear.

The label ‘fear’ is the actual experience (AE) of thought and not the AE of fear
The thoughts ABOUT fear are the AE of thought and not the AE of fear
The sensation labelled ‘fear’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of fear
The image labelled ‘body/me’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of fear

So what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT fear…but there is no actual fear. This will become clearer as we move through our exploration.

I feel my mind is tangled with the "correct terms". Makes me feel stupid and ignorant. It like trying to explain fire to someone who has never seen fire.. I've been pressing the teeth against each other all day, I feel the fear and some resistance inside my head. Wanting to stop this and just "go home". Am I being too honest?

Nope, you are not being too honest….honesty is the best policy. In the beginning language will be very different as you try and get to understand the language that I am using. But this process is not about thinking but is about LOOKING and to change from thinking to LOOKING does take a little time…so you will have to be patient with yourself.

If you aren’t sure about a question I am asking etc…please just say so. Pretense will only hinder our exploration.

Hoping you have patience and time with me.

I have patience…so don’t be concerned about that. Your job is to LOOK 

ps. is it beneficial to read the text over and over again before posting? How "well organized" and sensible the text should be?

This isn’t about having the right answers or giving wrong answers or being sensible etc, this exploration is about LOOKING to see what is actual as opposed to what is thought. This is an open and honest investigation into beliefs that hold together the idea of there being a separate self called Sanna.

So let’s begin by noticing actual experience (AE)



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Through this exploration, what is highlighted in blue text is what I would like answered. And remember to answer questions individually using the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Love, Kay
xx

[Mysterybox]

Good evening Kay,

Thank you for clearing up the process and giving explanations to my feelings. I've been more in peace today and I have more trust in this all.

So what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT fear…but there is no actual fear. This will become clearer as we move through our exploration.

This helped me to see the absurdness of the so called "fear". It is just my thought, based on past experiences, that are also only thoughts.

So, the apple...

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

No, there is no apple there. The "apple" is a label that we give to something because we are taught that "this kind of red fruit is called an apple". There are only colours and a thought about an apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

I would answer the same as the previous question: no, because "apple" is only a label. In AE there can be found something that we COULD label as an apple, but in AE it is only taste, smell, colour, sensation, sound. I'm a bit confused that you wrote

Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Confusion is related to the thought-part. How a thought is AE?

Love, Sanna

[forgetmenot]

Hey Sanna,

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

No, there is no apple there. The "apple" is a label that we give to something because we are taught that "this kind of red fruit is called an apple". There are only colours and a thought about an apple.

Lovely….yes there is only colour and thoughts about an apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

I would answer the same as the previous question: no, because "apple" is only a label. In AE there can be found something that we COULD label as an apple, but in AE it is only taste, smell, colour, sensation, sound.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about an ‘apple’ is known
However, an apple is not actually known

I'm a bit confused that you wrote
Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.
Confusion is related to the thought-part. How a thought is AE?

Thought, is a phenomena that appears just like sound, colour, taste, smell and sensation and the face value of thought is actual experience…so actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If thought contained experience then the word ‘sweet’ would taste sweet and the word ‘hot’ would be hot.

We will look at the nature of thought a little later on.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.


Love, Kay
xx

[Mysterybox]

Hello Kay,

I've had really interesting day with the exercise. When looking at different things (food, coffee, city and its activities, people...) I've noticed how everything just is. Like sound of traffic, it is just sound, there is no me listening to a sound, only sound appearing. And with coffee, there was no me drinking coffee, it was coffee "coffeeing", there was a colour of something, smell, taste, sensation and a thought, but no me there. And when looking at people, they are only colours appearing.

The sensation today has been like I am not here, like there is just happening this looking of everything. It is funny feeling. Somehow the judgement/evaluation/storytelling of everything has diminished a bit..

Love, Sanna

[forgetmenot]

Hi Sanna,

I've had really interesting day with the exercise. When looking at different things (food, coffee, city and its activities, people...) I've noticed how everything just is. Like sound of traffic, it is just sound, there is no me listening to a sound, only sound appearing. And with coffee, there was no me drinking coffee, it was coffee "coffeeing", there was a colour of something, smell, taste, sensation and a thought, but no me there. And when looking at people, they are only colours appearing.

Beautiful, Sanna! Yes, sound is just sound. It is thought that labels the sound as 'traffic' and then goes on to tell stories about traffic and what that means.

It is also thought that implies that there is a 'me' who is hearing sound, but can a dividing line be found between 'hearer' and sound?

So continue with this exercise for the next few days…just so that you become really aware of actual experience and the stories that thought weaves ABOUT actual experience.

So let’s start to have a look at the nature of thought.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
- Where are they coming from and going to?
- Can you predict your next thought?
- Can you push away any thought?
- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
xx

[Mysterybox]

Hi Kay,

Thank you for the exercises!

It is also thought that implies that there is a 'me' who is hearing sound, but can a dividing line be found between 'hearer' and sound?

No, can't find one. There is sound that can be heard by "hearer" but they are in fact the same.

I will continue with the exercise.

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Thoughts about the surrounding seems to rise because of a sensory stimulus ie sound/colours/smell. But then there are these randoms thought that rise from I-don't-know-where. Is it mind?

- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No, they seem to have a life of their own! Gosh...

- Where are they coming from and going to?

I don't know. Is it mind where they come from? And they seem to vanish somewhere but then it is possible to go back to the thought. They seem to be related with "my story", so the mind is reflecting the happening events to the previous experiences and creating thoughts based on that.

- Can you predict your next thought?

I would say sometimes. Most often there just appears some thought "by surprise", but when a thought has been thought ones/many times earlier, there might rise all the other thoughts related with the first one. It is like chain of thoughts so then it is possible to predict where the chain is going. Or not.

- Can you push away any thought?

It seems that when the looking is more active, then it is possible to stop thinking and just be.

- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

These seem to be the same question. By controlling the mind it seems possible (like in meditation when clearing the mind) to concentrate into something pleasant for a while, stopping a thought in the middle but these negative thoughts and thoughts that have been stopped can come up again. But no, there doesn't seem to be a permanent/lasting choosing/stopping/selecting of thoughts unless the looking is happening.

- Is it possible to control any thoughts?

No, if the looking doesn't happen.

- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

Same answer to this: only looking stops the random thoughts and the storytelling.

- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

I would say yes to everything, because thoughts are rising from the storytelling mind so the mind is creating this web of thoughts and they follow each other with different kinds of

I'm a bit confused that are there "two kinds of thoughts"? 1) This initial thought that is just observed and 2) these thoughts that mind (or what it is?) creates after the initial thought based on past and future.

Hugs, Sanna

[forgetmenot]

Hello Sanna,

It is also thought that implies that there is a 'me' who is hearing sound, but can a dividing line be found between 'hearer' and sound?

No, can't find one. There is sound that can be heard by "hearer" but they are in fact the same.

Since hearing and sound are one in the same, then where is the hearer? Where does hearing end and sound begin?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Thoughts about the surrounding seems to rise because of a sensory stimulus ie sound/colours/smell. But then there are these randoms thought that rise from I-don't-know-where. Is it mind?

Where in actual experience can a ‘mind’ be found?
The label ‘mind’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of a mind and the thoughts about a mind are the AE of thought and not the AE of a mind.
So does the label/thought ‘mind’ point to actual experience of anything else other than the actual experience of thought?

Where are they coming from and going to?

I don't know. Is it mind where they come from? And they seem to vanish somewhere but then it is possible to go back to the thought. They seem to be related with "my story", so the mind is reflecting the happening events to the previous experiences and creating thoughts based on that.

And how is it known that “it is possible to go back to the thought”, because a thought said so?

Can you predict your next thought?

I would say sometimes. Most often there just appears some thought "by surprise", but when a thought has been thought ones/many times earlier, there might rise all the other thoughts related with the first one. It is like chain of thoughts so then it is possible to predict where the chain is going. Or not.

Isn’t a thought only known as it appears? If you can predict just one thought, then it should be possible to predict all thoughts and there should be no random or surprise thoughts at all.

Think of a 2-digit number. Why did you choose that number? Why not the previous number, or the next one? Do you know? If not, why don’t you know? If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them.

How is it known that “when a thought has been thought ones/many times earlier, there might rise all the other thoughts related with the first one”, because a thought said so? The idea that one thought follows another is the belief in time…and time does not exist.

- Can you push away any thought?

It seems that when the looking is more active, then it is possible to stop thinking and just be.

Why would you want to push away a thought unless the thought has already been seen, otherwise there would be no reason in trying to push away a thought. So, since the thought has already been seen, is there any actual pushing away of thought or does another thought appear saying “I am pushing away that thought”?

- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

These seem to be the same question. By controlling the mind it seems possible (like in meditation when clearing the mind) to concentrate into something pleasant for a while, stopping a thought in the middle but these negative thoughts and thoughts that have been stopped can come up again.

If you are the controller/thinker of thought, why on earth would you even choose to have any unpleasant thoughts at all?

Think of a thought and I want you to stop thinking of thought in the middle of that thought. Now how long is a thought and where exactly is the middle? Where does one thought end and another begin?

But no, there doesn't seem to be a permanent/lasting choosing/stopping/selecting of thoughts unless the looking is happening.

Really? So when you are just noticing thought, you are able to select, choose and stop thoughts, but when not noticing thought, you aren’t able to do so? Why not? If you can predict and control thoughts…then you should be able to do so all the time.

- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

I would say yes to everything, because thoughts are rising from the storytelling mind so the mind is creating this web of thoughts and they follow each other with different kinds of

While you were LOOKING…did you actually see this “storytelling mind” create “this web of thoughts” or is that just another appearing thought that said “thoughts are rising from the storytelling mind so the mind is creating this web of thoughts”?

I'm a bit confused that are there "two kinds of thoughts"? 1) This initial thought that is just observed and 2) these thoughts that mind (or what it is?) creates after the initial thought based on past and future.

And what exactly are stories made up of? Are they not just thoughts that are being described as storytelling thoughts by another thought?

Thought is just thought,there is no past or future. How is it known that a thought is based on a past or a future…because a thought said so? Everything that you wrote above is a thought, there are no special or more intelligent thoughts compared to other thoughts and there are no hierarchy in thought...no thought is more important than another. Thought is simply thought.

Love, Kay
xx