Newbie

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:22 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that it's fact. Clearly we are not our physical bodies, thoughts, emotions, pasts, or experiences. All of these are temporal and experienced by the "experiencer". Nothing that can be experienced can be me, or else who is experiencing. This begs the question "then who or what is the experiencer?"

What are you looking for at LU?
I came here looking to be a guide, because I know the truth of your teaching and I wanted to be of service to help others see this truth. Personally, I took a long hard road to find these truths and understand them deeply. However, it was not with this exact method, so obviously I need to become more familiar and go through it myself first.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect we will have much in common, and hope to gain some clarification on the techniques used. At a glance, it looks relatively clear and familiar. Of course it is always good to be sure and experience this method myself to ensure I understand as well as I think I do.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Where do I start. I grew up a Protestant Christian in early life (birth-18). I suppose it was mostly through Eckhart Tolle that I became interested in buddhism. Through dan millman and "the untethered soul" I became interested in Taoism. Through Ram Dass I became interested in Yoga. I also enjoy reading Jiddu Krishnamurti. Countless other teachers and books but off the top of my head those are the main ones.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 11

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:38 pm

Hi Eromezis, welcome to LU forum, glad you made it here :) great to hear that you feel a call to guide, it's such a gift to be able to assist awakening.

Can you tell a little about your journey, what happened, what was that pushed you?
And what is the experiencer that you talk about?

Kind regards

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Mon May 01, 2017 12:02 am


Can you tell a little about your journey, what happened, what was that pushed you?
And what is the experiencer that you talk about?

Kind regards
My journey... do you mean my story in general or more specific to spirituality? It's hard to pinpoint too much specifically. I suppose a major turning point was after I joined the US Navy and got married. The marriage turned out awfully. She was a very abusive addict/alcoholic. I also turned to alcohol and got myself thrown out of the military and ended up getting a divorce (2007). That and several failed relationships afterwards, I guess, is largely what kept pushing me to seek the point of life. I also always felt a little distanced from the interests of this world in regards to money/power/status etc, so it felt easy to me to ignore that in my search.

The experiencer is not. I simply mean that which experiences. It is not a thing. Just present moment awareness. Or more deeply, that which allows the awareness to be, which is something I would either call "God" or "undefinable" or both.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Mon May 01, 2017 3:42 pm

Nice, thank you! I get what you are saying about experiencer.
Can you talk a little about this illusion of the separate self, what it is, how it starts, how to see though it. What is your experience about that?

Sending love

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Mon May 01, 2017 4:43 pm

The separate self. It is quite the illusion. It is what I would call our ego - basically the voice in the head that we have become identified with and confused as ourselves. I have heard many reasons for why it starts and I think they all play a role. The first one is that we are born into a world where everyone is already under that "spell". From the moment we can comprehend it, we are told the story about our separate self - when and where we were born, who our family is, what nation, religion, culture we belong to, etc. Then there is the idea of ambition for ambitions sake, so we constantly seek more, bigger, better, and newer to feed this idea of improving our"self". Unfortunately, this does give a temporary satisfaction so it's easy to get caught up in the lie. I could go on for quite a while about other reasons but I'm not sure you want to read that much :)

The way out for me was definitely a slow process, although it finally hit all at once. I'm not entirely sure where or if I ever heard anyone plainly state the truth of it. It was mainly through meditation and Tolle's books that I first grasped the idea of no self, probably about 7 years ago. Maybe 3-4 years later I would say it sank in and I really "got it". About another year after that I was at work one morning and it just hit me that this "no self" that I am is the same "no self" that everyone else is too! I looked around at my coworkers and realized I am them. They are me. I felt their pain and joy. I saw the overall looks of weariness on their faces and was hit by a river of sorrow and compassion. All I wanted is to help everyone else see the truth of it, because until enough of us do, nothing is going to change. I found it near impossible to teach this message for a number of reasons. People have artificial boundaries where you can't simply start talking about this sort of thing without scaring them off. Some simply aren't interested. In the rare event there is a chance share it, I find it extremely difficult to communicate because it's more an experience of insight and a knowing than understanding the concept. So that's why I came hear when I saw the opportunity :)

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Tue May 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I hear what you are saying about the difficulty to share this message, believe me, I know what it's like :) at the start of this movement there was a lot of fire, a lot of fights and trying to get people to start thinking for themselves. I have met a lot of resistance while sharing this message, till little by little people started hearing, started listening and actually got to see for themselves. I found that those that are ready and come for themselves by themselves have a good chance to realise this. The method that we apply here supports the seeker on their own journey. That's all we can do, support and point to the right direction. Amazingly it works.


Can you write a bit about choice, responsibly, free will, how does it work in your experience? How does 'normal' view, universal human belief is different?

Sending love

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Wed May 03, 2017 4:13 am

Who is there to make a choice? If no one is there to choose, how could he/she be responsible? "I" did not choose to be born - that is the heart of the matter. If I did not choose to be here, even if there was choice after that, it is of no significance because the origin of "me" was outside of "my" will. That is also my answer toward free will. However, some intelligence of which I am a part, started this whole thing. I have no direct experience of the beginning, but because I have the experience of now which is same same time that time began, I must have "been" there then too.

I'm sorry I don't understand your last question.

Iiona, thank you for sharing this time with me, I want you to know it is highly appreciated. I also wanted to ask, if you would be willing to be my mentor in guiding as well?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Wed May 03, 2017 2:21 pm

Thanks for answer. Sorry, I did not make myself clear, I was asking how does your view of reality is different from common understanding?

Can you talk about what are the benefits of seeing through the illusion of separate self? What changed for you, what hasn't changed. Are you still seeking or seeking is ended? What about suffering, is it an end of it?

Sending love

Ps, ok, I can be your mentor :)

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Wed May 03, 2017 4:50 pm

I don't feel like I have a view of reality. Right now my reality is the sound of someone mowing. The phone in my hands. The feel of my clothes, the air, this chair. You get what I mean, my environment is my reality I guess if I had to explain it with words. including inner body.

The primary difference being that for me those experiences of environment are me, as opposed to happening to me.

I cannot claim there to be any concrete benefits that one would acquire with this knowledge due to the immense variation of depth involved in understanding and becoming it. That is if I had to generalize the experience for anyone. For me, hearing and comprehending no self for the first time, made little to no difference. I was still the "I", I just thought I wasn't, which is meaningless aside from maybe being a step in the right direction.

I'm really having trouble with this one about benefits to be honest. It's not a simple process and there are times particularly in the early stages when it may feel quite scary. There is a lot to let go of and most of it we don't even know we're holding on to. I'm also wondering if my very gradual experience doesn't differ significantly from what others may experience with this method since it is so much faster.

What has changed for me is primarily a life of worry and meaninglessness became a life of peace and serenity. I've been freed from the bondage of excessive thought. I enjoy simple things that before I never would have noticed or cared about. What hasn't changed is the urge to do something of significance, to improve the world in some way.

I would not still label myself as a seeker, but there is still a part of me that wants to be sure I haven't missed anything. I do still read and listen and come back to teachings because I still do fall back sometimes into old habits/ways of thinking and I have to remind myself.

There is no suffering without thought. There is no suffering without a sufferer. So yes for me it is an end of suffering unless I forget, but suffering has become the easiest signal to me that I have lost sight of the truth and need to come back to it.

Thanks for being my mentor, I'm excited about that :) I am trying to work my way through your books this week.

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Thu May 04, 2017 2:57 am

I'm reading through your conversation with Sacha, which is of no significance to this post that I know of. But at some point in the midst of it, I hit a bump in the path. Let me clarify, nothing has changed, I still experience life as happening, there is no me doing any of it... the base awakening didn't go away, etc. I guess this is mostly a conceptual question that may have no basis in reality, but if that is the case I need help seeing so.

Anyway, to the point. this "life force" that makes this body go and everything be. I am that. it is one thing. That is clear as day. But it experiences this body/mind as being separate from other body/minds. Even though it is the same thing the same force that makes Ilona go. I can't see what Ilona sees. Ilona can't see what Tyler sees. That is perhaps why the illusion of separation occurs even if we weren't taught it, obviously. I don't really know how to clearly verbalize this without writing a book so I need to know if I'm making sense. I clearly experience a different experience than all other life forms, simultaneously, despite being the same thing as the "other". This makes me feel cut off from myself.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Thu May 04, 2017 1:37 pm

But it experiences this body/mind as being separate from other body/minds. Even though it is the same thing the same force that makes Ilona go. I can't see what Ilona sees. Ilona can't see what Tyler sees. That is perhaps why the illusion of separation occurs even if we weren't taught it, obviously. I don't really know how to clearly verbalize this without writing a book so I need to know if I'm making sense. I clearly experience a different experience than all other life forms, simultaneously, despite being the same thing as the "other". This makes me feel cut off from myself.
It's a crazy assumption that you should be seeing what other sees! Why?
There is uniqueness and every form is unique. Look this way, there is a tree and every leaf in the tree is connected to the aliveness in the tree. Every leaf is unique. Every leaf appears separate. No leaves are connected to each other side by side, but through the life force this makes the whole tree alive. Now you ask why you don't see what Ilona sees? I ask why should you? What kind of crazy idea is that? :)

there is a silent place underneath all thoughts. That's where connection is felt. Connection to life. That's where presence is found. You are never ever cut of from that. Only thoughts are taking too much attention to even know that there is this place of silent being. So turn away from idea of how you should feel connected and look right here right now how you are connected. See how there is no you to be connected to life force, as there is only this life force, expressing itself as forms.

Look at a tree, find an actual tree and observe it for a few minutes. Is life happening to a tree or as a tree?
Is life happening to you or as you?
Is it happening to thoughts, feelings, sensations or as thoughts, feeling, sensations?
Is there i that is cut off from life?

Describe what happens when you ask these questions.

Sending love.

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Thu May 04, 2017 4:58 pm

The tree is. I am. It's just interesting to me I guess, but yes I definitely let my mind run a bit much on that one :)

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Thu May 04, 2017 7:16 pm

That does not answer my question-
Describe what happens when you ask these questions. One by one.
Have a go.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7904
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Postby Ilona » Thu May 04, 2017 7:16 pm

That does not answer my question-
Describe what happens when you ask these questions. One by one.
Have a go.

User avatar
Eromezis
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Eromezis » Fri May 05, 2017 12:27 am

Life is happening as the tree, not to the tree. Life is happening as me, not to me. It is happening as thoughts/feelings/sensations. There is no I to be cut off from life, as there is no I. What happens when I ask these questions is a quiet mind and back to being... there is no particular feeling or emotion that comes up except maybe feeling a bit lighter and peaceful than before with the stoppage of thought.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests