Finish shift

[EugenioBy]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand it that everything in the universe is one. Not just only one but it's like a fullness and emptiness simultaneously. Everything comes and goes thoughts, feelings, sensations, actions, cats, dogs, cities - non-stop flow and it moves by itself, no self, just movement. So inherent "self" it's a life without a thought-belief in separateness

What are you looking for at LU?
There is a desire to seeing that there is no "I", to seeing reality how as it is - effortlessly, to make a final shift or to see that there is no "shifter". I'm looking for questions through which zoom be enough to realize that is only life.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I try to leave all expectations beyond, but yes, there are still some of this:
- I expect questions that can help me look for that more detailly
- I expect as a result finally I realize that there is no one
- I expect to go deeper and meet my fears
- I expect to leave all my expectations

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Now I'm a 31 years old. I started to seek a sense of life 5-7 years ago. I've learned some phycology, once I've been to Vipassana 10-days course, looking for myself in meditation, I've been to ayahuasca ceremony and met my biggest fear of losing control. While this period I've read many books about philosophy, phycology and so one and really become a tired of all this seeking staff. One year ago my friend sent me the link for Liberation Unleashed book since this time "I" try to been looked. I've read this book many times and other nonduality literature. Sometimes it fills like I'm closer to the edge and after becoming a usual separate life. Last 2 months I have had a strong determination to done it, despite there is nobody to done it and nothing to done.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Jorge786]

Hi Eugenio (it's correct to I call you by that name?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!

I'll be your guide if you want so

Thank you for your introduction, very interesting, we can investigate those issues :)

Please, let away any readings about this issue while this investigation is in progress and try to post daily to maintain the "momentum"

You wrote: "I expect as a result finally I realize that there is no one"
and then?... what do you think will happen when you realize that there is no one?

Hugs
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Hi Eugenio (it's correct to I call you by that name?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed!

I'll be your guide if you want so

Thank you for your introduction, very interesting, we can investigate those issues :)

Please, let away any readings about this issue while this investigation is in progress and try to post daily to maintain the "momentum"

You wrote: "I expect as a result finally I realize that there is no one"
and then?... what do you think will happen when you realize that there is no one?

Hugs
Jorge

Hi Jorge! I'm so glad that you are going to guide me! My appreciate!

Ok, I've just given up all this stuff and will talk only with you on this topic

You wrote: "I expect as a result finally I realize that there is no one"
and then?... what do you think will happen when you realize that there is no one?

It seems that here will be only simple feelings of life, that all one movement will obviously, thoughts and anxiety would be not sticky as it now, I will not care about future - it seems that something wants to rid of elusive responsibility for life, for family, and so one.

Jorge, seeing the truth it's like sport: when I do it, it seems more and more clear, but when I do not focus on it, life goes in the way how it used to with the illusion of control.

An hour ago I was running (sometimes I run))) It was rain and everything was so clear = just movement of the body, just active breathing, just feeling of the rain, just sound of music, just thoughts, just noticing of all of that.
But then thought come that seeing of this went away, then noticing that it just a thought and then again, come thought that it is noticing)) and it comes round by round, thought by thought. It absolutely clear that thought can not be more important than the feeling of the left hand now, nothing can be more important - everything that arises it's just a life as it is. But it's the thought about some final shift - after which I never rebound back to the illusion of control.

Hugs
Eugenio

[Jorge786]

Hi Eugenio

Hi Jorge! I'm so glad that you are going to guide me! My appreciate!
Ok, I've just given up all this stuff and will talk only with you on this topic

Nice, :)

It seems that here will be only simple feelings of life, that all one movement will obviously, thoughts and anxiety would be not sticky as it now, I will not care about future - it seems that something wants to rid of elusive responsibility for life, for family, and so one.

I really understand you but also I want you to look at the following...
are "thoughts and anxiety" not part of "feelings of life"?
it's weird but... when you see those thoughts and "bad" feelings as what is... feelings of life... they are no so "sticky" (being "sticky" just another thought more)

Jorge, seeing the truth it's like sport: when I do it, it seems more and more clear, but when I do not focus on it, life goes in the way how it used to with the illusion of control.

Yes!, Nice put, I agree!;
now look at this:
what is wrong with an illusion?
Control is an illusion... the "I" which seems to be in control is an illusion, the illusion will not disappear when "you" see it as it is. The way is not to try to make the illusion disappear ... it is only to see it as it is: an illusion

An hour ago I was running (sometimes I run))) It was rain and everything was so clear = just movement of the body, just active breathing, just feeling of the rain, just sound of music, just thoughts, just noticing of all of that.

Very good!... that's what IS!... and always IS... there are just some thoughts saying "No" :) "But it's the thought about some final shift - after which I never rebound back to the illusion of control."

look... just look... when running, when breathing, when smelling, when feeling... even when thinking... there are more than the running, the breathing, the smelling, the feeling, the thinking?
right now! in this very moment! there is more than All This?...
in that moment... what is in control?

Hugs
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Buenas noches Jorge!

are "thoughts and anxiety" not part of "feelings of life"?
it's weird but... when you see those thoughts and "bad" feelings as what is... feelings of life... they are no so "sticky" (being "sticky" just another thought more)

Yes, thoughts are the part of the life, also as an anxiety. When I see it, yes, it just comes and goes, it becomes not so sticky.

what is wrong with an illusion?
Control is an illusion... the "I" which seems to be in control is an illusion, the illusion will not disappear when "you" see it as it is. The way is not to try to make the illusion disappear ... it is only to see it as it is: an illusion

Well, that's a good question: what is wrong with an illusion? Because there is no such a thing like the illusion, it's just one more idea, like "I" - that's funny. The Illusive "I" try to see the illusion of the illusion of illusion etc......))) After realizing some of this stuff it feels like losing ground: I forget about what I looking for, what I investigate, what to need to see and so on - just stuck emptiness.

look... just look... when running, when breathing, when smelling, when feeling... even when thinking... there are more than the running, the breathing, the smelling, the feeling, the thinking?
right now! in this very moment! there is more than All This?...
in that moment... what is in control?

My Looking process: thought comes "hey you forget about focusing again, let's do it", ok after that focus on breathing, moving, seeing. Thought come "Is it I control it? Is it I feeler, doer here" - No - answer another thought, but on the backdrop, it always feels like somebody watching for all of this stuff. I try to zoom here and it disappears. I just understand, when I start seeing I wait for that reality become more colorful, deeper and so one, instead of it - it's just a usual life happens with a thought of illusive I and therefore feeling that something has to be solved. Throughout the writing of this post happening, became some of the insights.

I decided to finish here for today and just carry out seeing reality as it is, but then the thought came: "Who are going to carry out seeing for reality?" )))))
Let it be

Hugs
Eugenio

[Jorge786]

Hola Eugenio! :)

Well, that's a good question: what is wrong with an illusion? Because there is no such a thing like the illusion, it's just one more idea, like "I" - that's funny.

funny indeed!

The Illusive "I" try to see the illusion of the illusion of illusion etc......))) After realizing some of this stuff it feels like losing ground: I forget about what I looking for, what I investigate, what to need to see and so on - just stuck emptiness.

Yes, and there is not an "I" trying to see... there are just some thoughts about it, and some feelings about it, which are the same.
for me it's like, at some point, the "urgent needs for to know", right now, are in "the past"! they are just a thought, a memory, history, then, that "urgency" is not "me", it's just a thought, something that comes and goes... makes sense?

...but on the backdrop, it always feels like somebody watching for all of this stuff.

Yes, there seems to be "somebody", because there is a "consciousness" of "all this stuff", you know there is "something", (as you know there is something that you call a "computer screen"), but...
can you find the location of that "observer"?

"Who are going to carry out seeing for reality?" )))))
Let it be

You as This... or... This as You
ooh... Let it be :)

Hugs
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Hi Jorge!

Yes, and there is not an "I" trying to see... there are just some thoughts about it, and some feelings about it, which are the same.
for me it's like, at some point, the "urgent needs for to know", right now, are in "the past"! they are just a thought, a memory, history, then, that "urgency" is not "me", it's just a thought, something that comes and goes... makes sense?

Yes, definitely! A lot of thoughts tricks here.
Today it was subtle feeling like everything so simple - just the same life like as yesterday but without tension about remembering and doing every time "seeing for reality" exercise. It was like: ok, there is nothing argue with that somebody inside, let it be experienced.
Today I realized that I have expectation like - it should be some strong insight, therefore when i tried to look very attentively some shifts come and feeling comes that the seeing reality as it is much more closer now, but yeah, it's one more trick - let's see as hard as you can and U will see - ha ha ha ))) the old story about nevercomesive future, even here!))

Yes, there seems to be "somebody", because there is a "consciousness" of "all this stuff", you know there is "something", (as you know there is something that you call a "computer screen"), but...
can you find the location of that "observer"?

This is a pretty strange topic for me about the screen. No, I can't find an observer, also doer, controller and so one. Since I ve heard about "screen" something try to match or to make a fake of this, like: thought come "you see this, you fill that, there is nobody, you feel that you are everything...
When I've been to ayahuasca ceremony I was there, I was everything and nothing simultaneously, but it was a just impermanent state.
Sometimes all this looking for truth seems like one more mind-game, because when some troubles comes or I talk about my business, everything disappears - comes solid I feeling, carrying about "myself"

look... just look... when running, when breathing, when smelling, when feeling... even when thinking... there are more than the running, the breathing, the smelling, the feeling, the thinking?
right now! in this very moment! there is more than All This?...
in that moment... what is in control?

Here is nothing in control, only some thought that said it's impossible! Control should be here, perhaps it hides, and I have to find it source somewhere in never comes future)))

Some thought comes: hey ask Jorge where you have to look? What else you can do for seeing and so one...but understanding that is just a thoughts are here and I do not really now what to ask, I'm a lil bit empty )))

Hugs
Eugenio

[Jorge786]

Hi Eugenio

Today I realized that I have expectation like - it should be some strong insight, therefore when I tried to look very attentively some shifts come and feeling comes that the seeing reality as it is much closer now, but yeah, it's one more trick - let's see as hard as you can and U will see - ha ha ha ))) the old story about nevercomesive future, even here!))

It's like trying hard to stay here, when it's obvious you're already here ;) you see?, you're already here, "you" already ARE, Not as "Eugenio," but rather as THIS

"- it should be some strong insight..."

"Should be" is a requirement of thoughts, what IS, does not require anything, needs nothing.
so, what do "YOU" want?, how "you" know what "you" want?, what is that "Entity" who "wants"?
look for that entity who wants...

Some thought comes: hey ask Jorge where you have to look? What else you can do for seeing and so one...but understanding that is just a thoughts are here and I do not really now what to ask, I'm a lil bit empty )))

where to look? hmmm
You are already what is being observed right there by yourself, there is no possible escape to "another" place nor to other time, since there is not separation between the "object" observed and the observer, you are All
Is there an observer and observed?

Hugs
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Hello Jorge!

It's like trying hard to stay here, when it's obvious you're already here ;) you see?, you're already here, "you" already ARE, Not as "Eugenio," but rather as THIS

It makes me laugh))))))) It's so ridiculously. Yes, it's so hard just to be))

"Should be" is a requirement of thoughts, what IS, does not require anything, needs nothing.
so, what do "YOU" want?, how "you" know what "you" want?, what is that "Entity" who "wants"?
look for that entity who wants...

There are only thoughts make desires, if I feel hungry - it's just a feeling and nothing more, so when thoughts about future come I remember that it's only a thought and feeling of freedom comes instead of it. There is no entity
Today a had a small conflict and after the strong feelings got away came understanding that in other people there is no entity, just a life - shapes make a great trick - it's really Matrix.

You are already what is being observed right there by yourself, there is no possible escape to "another" place nor to other time, since there is not separation between the "object" observed and the observer, you are All
Is there an observer and observed?

Sure, I can't get off from reality it's just IS. Maybe nothing changes, maybe it's already ok. Yeah, it should be like that, I feel it. All this suffering just appearing they are not real. No separation here, no observer, just experience.

But steel thoughts about I'm not after the gate, there is need something last detail for that - yes just a thought, but It's not so serious. On the other hand, I do not want to believe that I went through the gate..

[EugenioBy]

Hi Jorge!
Today starts with: What if everything is ok as it is now? I don't know how to explain that, but it feels like "seeing" for the truth became not so important how it was few weeks ago, seems that it loses some sense because it became transparent...
What if I'm already home without great feeling of one love, one movement and so one. Right here, right now with all of this stuff.
Just now when fingers are typing this text strong emotions are coming. Perhaps there is nothing to achieve or to see

[Jorge786]

Hi Eugenio

It makes me laugh))))))) It's so ridiculously. Yes, it's so hard just to be))

Yes, sooo hard! ;)

There are only thoughts make desires, if I feel hungry - it's just a feeling and nothing more, so when thoughts about future come I remember that it's only a thought and feeling of freedom comes instead of it. There is no entity

Yes again! that "I feel hungry" does not need an "entity"

Today a had a small conflict and after the strong feelings got away came understanding that in other people there is no entity, just a life - shapes make a great trick - it's really Matrix.

Yeah!... shapes... just shapes... feelings... thoughts... all those "objects" are happening, but where?; where is the location of the sound, where is the location of the thoughts?; there is a "there" there is a "here"?.
Pay attention to sound, there is a thought saying "there is a bird over there", but really... really it's just a sound... and the thought arise, that thought purpose a "location of an object", but... where is the sound happen? inside "you"? outside? there is no location?

Sure, I can't get off from reality it's just IS. Maybe nothing changes, maybe it's already ok. Yeah, it should be like that, I feel it. All this suffering just appearing they are not real. No separation here, no observer, just experience.

Great!

But steel thoughts about I'm not after the gate, there is need something last detail for that - yes just a thought, but It's not so serious. On the other hand, I do not want to believe that I went through the gate..

nothing go trough the gate, nobody goes trough the gate, there is no gate... there is not a "you" who cross the gate, "YOU" already are, You are already, before, on the lintel and after the gate......... and the gate itself.

Warm hugs
Jorge

[Jorge786]

Hi Again!

Today starts with: What if everything is ok as it is now? I don't know how to explain that, but it feels like "seeing" for the truth became not so important how it was few weeks ago, seems that it loses some sense because it became transparent...
What if I'm already home without great feeling of one love, one movement and so one. Right here, right now with all of this stuff.

Who is he who wants feelings of love and unity?
Is not "EVERYTHING" already here and now?
Where are "you"? outside of "This"?
there is a "YOU" as an entity separate of This?

Just now when fingers are typing this text strong emotions are coming. Perhaps there is nothing to achieve or to see

let the emotions to be... as everything... really... really... "there is nothing to achieve or to see"... so easy!

Welcome
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Hello Jorge!

Yeah!... shapes... just shapes... feelings... thoughts... all those "objects" are happening, but where?; where is the location of the sound, where is the location of the thoughts?; there is a "there" there is a "here"?.
Pay attention to sound, there is a thought saying "there is a bird over there", but really... really it's just a sound... and the thought arise, that thought purpose a "location of an object", but... where is the sound happen? inside "you"? outside? there is no location?

Wow! It seems that U mentioned one more super-hidden belief! It makes me laugh one more time!)))) If there is a way of objects it doesn't mean that it's something else!!!)))) Grand - opening. I want to investigate it deeper, but, no - just a thought about wanting to investigate comes.

nothing go trough the gate, nobody goes trough the gate, there is no gate... there is not a "you" who cross the gate, "YOU" already are, You are already, before, on the lintel and after the gate......... and the gate itself.

Last days it more looks like all that gate-stuff being melted. As though I was going to very important certain place by the road for a long time and now I just forget where and why I have gone and I just sit on the road and here I noticed the life.
it really not the straightforward process - I mean seeing for truth.

Who is he who wants feelings of love and unity?
Is not "EVERYTHING" already here and now?
Where are "you"? outside of "This"?
there is a "YOU" as an entity separate of This?

It steel expectations - which made by chains of thoughts and beliefs. There is no separate entity. Everything that could ever happen only now. I can't find myself in this body also outside this body.

More often sometimes occurs spontaneously a fit of laughter and joy, usually when I am alone.

It seems life separate on the 2 parts:
1 - where I am usually alone and seeing, talking with you, and so one
2 - where I communicate with a people doing day to day affairs
Yes, it's only thought, but focus is gone when I'm in society

Today I noticed that the old strong thoughts don't make any sense for me it doesn't drive me anymore. When the thought came I just followed it and defined that it refer to history of not existing me and poof - it became empty

Thank this day and You
Hugs
Eugenio

[Jorge786]

Hello Eugenio!

Wow! It seems that U mentioned one more super-hidden belief! It makes me laugh one more time!)))) If there is a way of objects it doesn't mean that it's something else!!!)))) Grand - opening. I want to investigate it deeper, but, no - just a thought about wanting to investigate comes.

Yes!... just a thought about!
at this moment we just need the laugh!

Last days it more looks like all that gate-stuff being melted. As though I was going to very important certain place by the road for a long time and now I just forget where and why I have gone and I just sit on the road and here I noticed the life.
it really not the straightforward process - I mean seeing for truth.

oh!... that's great! the "very important place" IS the road!

... I can't find myself in this body also outside this body.

Was there ever a Self?
Was there ever control?

More often sometimes occurs spontaneously a fit of laughter and joy, usually when I am alone.

Hahaha, one of my first laughs was at a Chinese restaurant full of people ... I was with my family, they asked the waitress to put the takeaway and they took me out of the restaurant to a nearby park...
be careful with the "five flavors chicken"!!! it may have strange side effects!!!

It seems life separate on the 2 parts:
1 - where I am usually alone and seeing, talking with you, and so one
2 - where I communicate with a people doing day to day affairs
Yes, it's only thought, but focus is gone when I'm in society

Sure, seems to be two differents "mental states",
it's not the same to see a beautiful dawn than a traffic accident ;) but... you are present in "both" situations
... Life, You, This, That, Consciousness, Awareness, are the same in either case,
This is always present... when appears "people doing day to day affairs" and when appears "I'm alone"

Today I noticed that the old strong thoughts don't make any sense for me it doesn't drive me anymore. When the thought came I just followed it and defined that it refer to history of not existing me and poof - it became empty

Great! enjoy!

Thank this day and You

thanks for that! <3

Hugs!
Jorge

[EugenioBy]

Hahaha, one of my first laughs was at a Chinese restaurant full of people ... I was with my family, they asked the waitress to put the takeaway and they took me out of the restaurant to a nearby park...
be careful with the "five flavors chicken"!!! it may have strange side effects!!!

Hahaha - people could think that you got smoked smthg, but that is only true so ridiculous)))

Sure, seems to be two differents "mental states",
it's not the same to see a beautiful dawn than a traffic accident ;) but... you are present in "both" situations
... Life, You, This, That, Consciousness, Awareness, are the same in either case,
This is always present... when appears "people doing day to day affairs" and when appears "I'm alone"

Today it was seeing in every situation, Yes life is everywhere and always.

I really like your expression "you are not what you think!" when thoughts come and believing doesn't happen it creates a space of freedom.
Also, comes the understanding that this moment not more than feelings, sights, smells, emotions, thoughts. There is no hopes, no invented senses, nothing that doesn't exist right now.

Was there ever a Self?
Was there ever control?

Well, I can't find it right now, so I supposed throughout all life-long it couldn't be founded.
However, some question thoughts come like: If there is no self, just life - why sight, hearings, feelings ets happens in particular body?
Yes, it just a thought but it born a bit of doubt

Hugs
Eugenio