I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

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Granit
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I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:34 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I don't think that we are separate with nature and all what is happening but i haven't realised it yet. I need some help for it.

What are you looking for at LU?
Realisation of no-self and getting lighter in life . Maybe suffering from past pains and daily life will be easier by understanding this. And everybody is looking for a meaning in life and I follow one of it... but maybe it's just an idea?

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
My mind is used to solve puzzles and i like to follow stories in life which may put me on a long road to understand simple things (if it is a simple thing to understand). And that's why i need guidence to clear my path.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Not lots of spiritual background. Some information came to my friend about the ideas in LU. And also i watched some videos and tried some meditations before.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 10

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:05 am

Hello Granit,

Welcome to the guiding process! :)

I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions and exercises. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown. The questions refer to what is already actually known. And what is already known? Sound, smell, taste, thought, sensation and colour. So, questions are not answered through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘LOOKING’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual to actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

To begin with, I would just like to know what your expectations are from having this exploration. So, in your own words could you please answer the 5 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Please answer the questions highlighted in blue text individually, and remember to highlight the question being answered by using the quote function.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Granit
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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Hello, Kay. I've read all below. But i will answer the questions in " thinking way" without taking in account all that what i've read. Ok?

[How will life change? ]
I guess life will be same. We cannot control what is happening. We can perceive it differently. With acceptance. In theory. But... in reality it happens very difficult. I still cannot believe that i can accept somebody's death or sickness. I will surely blame smth(something)! And try to change it (cure).


[How will you change? ]
I will have more patience. But any kind of change i won't recognise and will take it as for granted.
Maybe i will loose feeling of responsability for other people. I think i know what they need to change for better and i become angry if they don't do it. "I told u.. i told u... it is sooo easyyyy...."

[What will be different?]
Perception of any events, desires, people's actions, my weakpoints...


[What is missing?]
I don't know yet. Before i thought experience. Now... i really can't tell now.

[What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?]
Drop some hidden beliefs which direct me and give aggressive or strange reactions on some events or some people's talks... stop worry about mom... and other friends... believe that they can handle situations without my help...
Maybe some more similar things connected with high expectations and my power to change smth.


Thank you. Hope i answered fully. :) Anna
p.s. sorry for "i" not in capital letter. I used to write quickly. And to change it takes time and irritates me. :(

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:48 am

Hello Anna,

First, it will be good for you to learn to use the quote function. As our posts become longer etc, using the quote function will keep the posts easier to follow and read. Here is the link again, which shows you how to use the quote function.

http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660
[How will life change? ]
I guess life will be same. We cannot control what is happening. We can perceive it differently. With acceptance. In theory. But... in reality it happens very difficult. I still cannot believe that i can accept somebody's death or sickness. I will surely blame smth(something)! And try to change it (cure).
This exploration isn’t about changing or bettering the separate self/person. This is about seeing through the belief of being a person. There has never been a separate self/person and there isn’t one now who is reading this.

Perceptions change, however, grief, anger, disappointment, frustration, impatience etc all still appear, but there is no one who controls whether these emotions appear or not!
[How will you change? ]
I will have more patience. But any kind of change i won't recognise and will take it as for granted. Maybe i will loose feeling of responsability for other people. I think i know what they need to change for better and i become angry if they don't do it. "I told u.. i told u... it is sooo easyyyy...."
Since there is no illusory self, then how can there be ‘other people’? And seeing through the illusory self may or may not change behaviour…but that is not what seeing though the illusory self is about. Seeing through the illusory self for what it really is – a story – does not mean that your life is suddenly upgraded in every conceivable way. Old habits, beliefs, programming and conditioning will very probably remain in place. Awakening from the story of you allows old patterns to drop away quickly. The foundation upon which these patterns were based is gone.
[What will be different?]
Perception of any events, desires, people's actions, my weakpoints...


There is no ‘you’ that has weak points. There are thoughts about a ‘you’ and there are thoughts about ‘weak points’ but there is no ‘you’ who has ‘weak points’. How could people's actions possibly change? Firstly, you have no control over other's actions, just as you have no control over the illusory self actions, and secondly there are no 'others'!

Perception changes, but not overnight! Seeing through the illusory self is a beginning and not an end. It is a major realisation but there are other realisations that happen as well...but this exploration is only about seeing through the illusory self.
What is missing?
I don't know yet. Before i thought experience. Now... i really can't tell now.
There is absolutely nothing missing…never has been.
[What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?]
Drop some hidden beliefs which direct me and give aggressive or strange reactions on some events or some people's talks... stop worry about mom... and other friends... believe that they can handle situations without my help...
Maybe some more similar things connected with high expectations and my power to change smth.
Once again, you have EXPECTATIONS of the illusory self changing. I must question your desire for seeing through the illusory self, because the desire to change the illusory self is not what this exploration is about. There is NO separate self…so how can you change what doesn’t exist?

Reading through your responses, it seems you never read my introductory post carefully, nor the links I posted. One of the links was to what LU is NOT and yet your responses reflect a desire for self-improvement and not liberation from the belief of a separate self. So please read the following. If you are wanting any of the following then you are not at the right place, you need to seek a self-improvement life coach, because this exploration is NOT about improving the non-existent self.

Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:26 am

Hello, Kay! Thank you for the reply. I will be more accurate in the expression of the thoughts.
First of all, by answering the questions I tried to give you symptoms of how this "self in the body called Anna" is working and what this "wonderful creature" is thinking. You say
you have EXPECTATIONS of the illusory self changing. I must question your desire for seeing through the illusory self, because the desire to change the illusory self is not what this exploration is about. There is NO separate self…
surely there are expectations... but I hardly can name from which field they are. You said they concern again this illusory self. So I understand that I'm far from clarity that
There is NO separate self…
That's why I ask you to help me to see this.

I cannot imagine what will change and what will happen. I want to be opened to this exploration and i want really understand what is illusory. And please don't wait from me to get everything immediately. For example, I cannot understand these things from the list of "what is not".
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
...
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
These things still look closed to me. This is like warnings. (honestly maybe on 70 percent I thought the opposite. because what will you do if there is NO self and it is just an illusion? - you will get rid of it, won't you... haha)

I want you to understand my intentions. I think I can understand or be awakened ( i don't know the right words) I really hope you can help me with this in a gentle peaceful way :)

Thank you.
Anna.

p.s. about language barrier. please ask me more places which are not clear. my native language is Russian so sometimes I express some thoughts not in a proper English. Like this
Perception of any events, desires, people's actions, my weak points...


I meant this: I think the perception of events, the perception of my desires, the perception of people's actions.. will change.

Surely
How could people's actions possibly change? Firstly, you have no control over other's actions...
but this part I don't understand why
just as you have no control over the illusory self actions
don't we have control of it? Really? (Why does it exist then? - don't kill me for this question :)

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:25 pm

Hello Anna,

So, I would like to point out here, that it is important that you read my posts very carefully and to read them several times. Do not rush through them, and if I give you a link, that you actually look at the link. There is no end time to when the separate self is seen through, it happens when it happens. Having a language difference will also create some challenges….so please read my posts very carefully and thoroughly.
I cannot imagine what will change and what will happen. I want to be opened to this exploration and i want really understand what is illusory. And please don't wait from me to get everything immediately. For example, I cannot understand these things from the list of "what is not".
Everything in that list is an expectation. And if that is what you want from this exploration then these expectations will be a block to you seeing or a block to seeing that you have seen! So it is important to be aware of expectations….and to when those expectations are appearing that are stopping you from LOOKING/seeing.

If you look to behaviour changing, or thinking to change as a means to gauge whether you have seen or not…then you will just keep chasing your own tail and our exploration will keep going round in circles.

So, I want you to be aware of your expectations…but to be here with curiosity and an open mind and a willingness to LOOK, and a willingness to question everything you think you know and believe. This exploration is about ‘unlearning’ what you think you are….so I would like you to put aside everything you think you know and just be here with an open mind and a willingness to LOOK.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
...
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
These things still look closed to me. This is like warnings. (honestly maybe on 70 percent I thought the opposite. because what will you do if there is NO self and it is just an illusion? - you will get rid of it, won't you... haha)
There has never been a separate self…it has ALWAYS been an illusion…so what exactly will be gotten rid of? How can you get rid of an illusion?
I meant this: I think the perception of events, the perception of my desires, the perception of people's actions.. will change.
Yes, perception changes…but that doesn’t mean then that ‘you’, ‘others’ or the ‘world/life’ changes….how you perceive ‘yourself’, ‘others’ and the ‘world/life’ is what changes. There is a difference!

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label each experience simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.


Throughout this exploration, whatever is in blue text is what I would like you to respond to.


Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:03 pm

Hello, Kay!

I guess we took an existance of expectations with mothers milk.... oh...
I will take these words as the main and will follow them.
....so I would like you to put aside everything you think you know and just be here with an open mind and a willingness to LOOK.

Ok. Report of making an exercise. Interesting. But i found it hard. Why? Because i couldn't understand where to focus my attention. So many actions happen a day. 2 days i tried to focus on something. And i couldn't understand what to see or to hear. Like this: clocks on the wall are tiking. This is sound "tik-tak".
I was waiting till the water would warm up in a bathroom. Hand was checking it. Cold water touches the skin - sensation.
I mean these things are taken for granted for sooooo many years that it is easy to loose focus on them. And even when i do this it doesn't mean anything to me. Before an exercise and after.

But when this happened : a girl came. She made me feel particular emotions (anger, offence, pity also). i tried to separate this experience with those simple actual experiences. So it happened like this. Her face - colors. Black... brawn.. pinky... yellow... white...red...
Her words- sounds. Like if she speaks another language which u don't know... it is just sounds.
And all feelings went away. Observation started. I didn't feel any need to talk. (Before i wanted to tell some bad words... like "how could u... u are not a thankful person... people give u so many chances and u let them down..") it is not She or a person or a human. Just colors, sounds, smells...

Or another experience. There was an insect in the room. As usually first reaction- tension! I afraid that it will bite. But then... He is flying. - sound " vzzzzzz " and colour " black" . After seeing this, tension has gone and fear as well.


U know. I remember when there was time of big lamp TVs i slowly was coming close to the screen and... the whole picture started to go away - only dots of 3 colors - red, blue and yellow. 2 steps back - picture on the screen comes back. It becomes a face of a president... or concert of live music... this exercise is something like this. To see that everything is build from only "red yellow blue dots" which are "colors, smells, sounds, sensations..."

With " thoughts" its hardly went. I can't separate them from what i'm doing. For example. I saw on a shelf some books. I took one of them. I read the cover. Opened and started to read. (As a surprise i found a book which I wanted to read someday... in my life... and it is here in a place where our business trip is taking place. Coincidense.) Please help me - where in this experience a 'thought" as an AE? Or in other examples...

P.s. I read ur posts several times and don't want to miss anything. :)

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:59 pm

Hello Anna,

You did a really good job with looking at ‘things’ with actual experience! Seeing the ‘other person’ as colour, sound is truly wonderful! So, I would like for you to keep doing that exercise for a few more days.

The purpose is for you to see what is actually appearing and not what thought says is appearing/happening. Our exploration will be based on actual experience (AE) and NOT thinking. Shifting from thinking to LOOKING (with AE) will be challenging to begin with, but I will always point for you to LOOK to see what is the actual experience and not what thought is saying.
With " thoughts" its hardly went. I can't separate them from what i'm doing. For example. I saw on a shelf some books. I took one of them. I read the cover. Opened and started to read. (As a surprise i found a book which I wanted to read someday... in my life... and it is here in a place where our business trip is taking place. Coincidense.) Please help me - where in this experience a 'thought" as an AE? Or in other examples...
Yes, the following ‘apple’ exercise will help you with thought. And yes, thought is AE. AE is sound + sensation + colour (image) + smell + taste + thought. However, the content of thought is story, because, as in and of itself it, thought does not contain any experience, otherwise the label ‘sweet’ would taste sweet and the word ‘hot’ would be hot.
P.s. I read ur posts several times and don't want to miss anything.
I laughed when I read this! Thank you for being diligent in reading my post and not missing anything :)

If you like, you can get a ‘real’ apple and do the exercise or just use this picture.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour;
a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience (AE) does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:03 pm

Hello. Kay. It took long time to get here. Sorry for that. Feeling not good last few days.

But during this time i tried to exercise. I used 'appple', different objects. And understood that every thought which comes says us what to DO with "that what u see". If it is an apple - u eat it. But in AE it is color and sensaition( if i touch it) and thought.

Same with other objects. There is no good or bad.

So there are REALLY colors... but it can be anything. If we didn't know that it is an apple... we could take it as a ball... or poison... or whatever. So names - labels - is what we get from language. thats why in different languages there are different names of same objects.

Anna. (If u are ill... and brain doesn't work as it usually does, it is an opportunity just to see. Very funny when u are discover that somwthing very important is just a sound and picture and a thought which reminds u about some specialities of this thing(for example about a date, about a person, holliday on Bahamas... hahah.)

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:32 pm

Hello Anna,

I hope you are feeling better?
But during this time i tried to exercise. I used 'appple', different objects. And understood that every thought which comes says us what to DO with "that what u see". If it is an apple - u eat it. But in AE it is color and sensaition( if i touch it) and thought. Same with other objects. There is no good or bad.
Yes...wonderful LOOKING, Anna. And if you 'ate' the apple then there is AE of taste labelled 'apple'.

And what labels things as 'good' or 'bad'?
So there are REALLY colors... but it can be anything. If we didn't know that it is an apple... we could take it as a ball... or poison... or whatever. So names - labels - is what we get from language. thats why in different languages there are different names of same objects.
Yes! So, if you ignore all thoughts and labels, all that is appearing is colour! Terrific LOOKING, Anna!

Okay...let's take a look a thoughts.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

- Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
- Where are they coming from and going to?
- Can you predict your next thought?
- Can you push away any thought?
- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
- Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
- Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
- Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
- It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Love, Kay
xx
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https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 pm

Hello Kay! Give u my report from about the task!

And what labels things as 'good' or 'bad'?
Due to our conditionings something to be labeled 'good' and 'bad' atteches with morality. But with centuries laws of morality have changed and still are changing. For my grandparents it is good to have full education, respect from superiours, find a well-off husband .... but now these ideas loose their power. More important to be all-sufficient however u can.... ect....
out of all this it clearly shows that all these is just an idea.
Still there are some unbreakable ideas which are labled 'bad' (even unexceptable) - to kill, to steal, to lie, to cheat...
I hardly can accept that these is also just ideas... thoughts... :( ( i guess this belief comes from learning the Biblical commandments)

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Thoughts like pictures... clips from different movies appeared. I didn't do anything to bring them to me. Something from dream... office life... shop... if i focuses on particular thought it lasted little bit longer. But was interrapted with another one.
- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
before a particular thought came i didn't give any commends like "now i will think about this". I just started to think about it. So the answer is NO
Where are they coming from and going to?
Hell know... hahaha... from a cloud...??? Sometimes people think one and same thought at the same time.
I noticed. When Some sounds come - zzzzz....wind - picture comes of a tree ,
Sound "miaauuu'" - picture of a cat comes. I don't see thrm in reallity but thoughts about them come.
Can you predict your next thought?
No. It just comes.

Can you push away any thought?
With words " its just a thought, just an idea" thought looses its power.

- Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No, unfortunayelly... always mix.
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Yes . With awaikining . With words "who is thinking? "
Or
Another not polite thought comes itself and interrapts.
But again without "me".
Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Thoughts are coming with what is happening. It gives mood. I'm not sure that i can control fully what kind of thoughts to have. With distruction(food..movie.. talk to friend..) it is possible to change kind of thoughts... otherwise if people could choose not to have painful and negative thoughts... who would like to have them at all?? :) there would never be such things.
Any way thoughts are just thoughts... they can't be negative or possitive.
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No. No control. Only u can focus little bit longer on one of it.
- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
No
Only give attention to some of them more.

- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
First part: they come somehow. There is no controll on their appearence...
Second part: i' m not sure that understood that question.
We are learnt to say 'l', 'me'... again as normal thoughts they come. But usually like responses on some of AE. Like " i hear the smell of rose... i feel cold.. i'm hungry"
So it comes automatically. If to catch yourself oh"i said this, then as a habbit it is possible to get rid of these thoughts" and don't say "i fell cold ... i jealous... i angry...." - "it is cold, there is jelous feelings inside... anger is coming" but without attechments with this "me".

-
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

There is a chain of thoughts. There are even some very fascinating games... how people start from cats(for example), and finish with bombs... or sex...
But they are not in order. Maybe in their own order... psicologists work on it try to reveal the secrets of mind... but... with my observation... if i need to get a product of thinking process answering "what shall i do" somehow the answer comes. Starting from a..... hsbdgrvtksbah... z, not like a...bcdefg...z( alphabet order).


During this excercise following questions appeared:

If u follow thoughts, they can effect us from AE - sensations inside... like depression... anger... jealous... happiness
Really,
Are there any connections between AEs?

P.s. with more then couple of minutes i became bored of my thoughts... and distracted myself with some outside information... if u don't follow them... it is not interesting :) people must suffer from their own mind!!! (joke)haha...

Anna:)

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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:14 am

Hello Anna,

You did some great LOOKING! :)
And what labels things as 'good' or 'bad'?
Due to our conditionings something to be labeled 'good' and 'bad' atteches with morality.
It is another thought that labels thoughts and things as ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Without a thought appearing saying 'this is good' or 'this is bad', nothing would be known as good or bad!

What exactly is it that has had conditioning?
Are colours conditioned?
Are sounds conditioned?
Are thoughts conditioned?
Are smells conditioned?
Are tastes conditioned?
Are sensations conditioned?
If no...then what exactly is it that has had conditioning?


Does the thought “Due to our conditionings something to be labeled 'good' and 'bad' atteches with morality” know anything about conditioning or morality? Does this thought point to actual experience or does it point to thoughts about thought?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Thoughts like pictures... clips from different movies appeared. I didn't do anything to bring them to me. Something from dream... office life... shop... if i focuses on particular thought it lasted little bit longer. But was interrapted with another one.
Yes, but did YOU to anything make any of that appear…or it just all appeared without needing you to do anything?

- Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
before a particular thought came i didn't give any commends like "now i will think about this". I just started to think about it. So the answer is NO
Wonderful!

Can you push away any thought?
With words " its just a thought, just an idea" thought looses its power.
Yes, but aren’t the words “its just a thought, just an idea" a thought that is appearing? Did you do anything to make that thought appear to push other thoughts away?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Yes . With awaikining . With words "who is thinking? "
Or
Another not polite thought comes itself and interrapts.
But again without "me".
Where exactly is a middle of a thought? Where does one thought end and another begin?

Can you choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Thoughts are coming with what is happening. It gives mood. I'm not sure that i can control fully what kind of thoughts to have. With distruction(food..movie.. talk to friend..) it is possible to change kind of thoughts... otherwise if people could choose not to have painful and negative thoughts... who would like to have them at all?? :) there would never be such things. Any way thoughts are just thoughts... they can't be negative or possitive.
Did you do anything to change thoughts? Did you decide to do something different so as to think different thoughts? And if you decided to do something different so as to think different thoughts….how did you manage to bring thoughts about deciding to your attention so as to change what you are doing so as to change the thinking?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No. No control. Only u can focus little bit longer on one of it.
How is it known that you can focus on a thought a little bit longer? Because a thought said so?

- Is it possible to control any thoughts?
No. Only give attention to some of them more.
And how is it known that you are giving thought more attention…because a thought said so?

- Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
First part: they come somehow. There is no controll on their appearence...
Second part: i' m not sure that understood that question.
Right there….”I’m not sure that understood that question”. Did you have any control over whether or not the thought “I’m” appeared?
We are learnt to say 'l', 'me'... again as normal thoughts they come. But usually like responses on some of AE. Like " i hear the smell of rose... i feel cold.. i'm hungry"
So it comes automatically. If to catch yourself oh"i said this, then as a habbit it is possible to get rid of these thoughts" and don't say "i fell cold ... i jealous... i angry...." - "it is cold, there is jelous feelings inside... anger is coming" but without attechments with this "me".
And do you have any control over whether those thoughts appear or not? If you cannot control or predict thoughts...then why would “I” thoughts be any different?

If u follow thoughts, they can effect us from AE - sensations inside... like depression... anger... jealous... happiness
Really, Are there any connections between AEs?
Next time a thought appears that seems to cause a sensation….LOOK very carefully to see what links the thought with the sensation. Let me know what you find.
P.s. with more then couple of minutes i became bored of my thoughts... and distracted myself with some outside information... if u don't follow them... it is not interesting :) people must suffer from their own mind!!! (joke)haha...
And what is ‘outside’ information…are they not just more thought?

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Granit
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:32 am

Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:32 pm

Hello. Kay!

What exactly is it that has had conditioning? Are colours conditioned?
no
Are sounds conditioned?
no
Are thoughts conditioned?
no
Are smells conditioned?
no
Are tastes conditioned?
no
Are sensations conditioned?
no
If no...then what exactly is it that has had conditioning?
it is a thought that smth is conditioned

Does the thought “Due to our conditionings something to be labeled 'good' and 'bad' atteches with morality” know anything about conditioning or morality?

Does this thought point to actual experience or does it point to thoughts about thought?
no.
no.it points to thoughts about thought

Yes, but did YOU to anything make any of that appear…or it just all appeared without needing you to do anything?
it just all appeared without needing you to do anything
Yes, but aren’t the words “its just a thought, just an idea" a thought that is appearing? Did you do anything to make that thought appear to push other thoughts away?
no. i did not

Where exactly is a middle of a thought? Where does one thought end and another begin?
i dont know. ıt ıs just what ıt ıs. no need to thınk that somethıng ıs wrong.... that somewhere ıs a half thought...mıddle or end. ıt ıs just thought how ıt ıs.
Did you do anything to change thoughts? Did you decide to do something different so as to think different thoughts? And if you decided to do something different so as to think different thoughts….how did you manage to bring thoughts about deciding to your attention so as to change what you are doing so as to change the thinking?
:( they just came wıthout me. i see now
How is it known that you can focus on a thought a little bit longer? Because a thought said so?
yes
Right there….”I’m not sure that understood that question”. Did you have any control over whether or not the thought “I’m” appeared?
no

And do you have any control over whether those thoughts appear or not? If you cannot control or predict thoughts...then why would “I” thoughts be any different?
ıt is same thoughts as others
Next time a thought appears that seems to cause a sensation….LOOK very carefully to see what links the thought with the sensation. Let me know what you find.
another thought about sensatıons
And what is ‘outside’ information…are they not just more thought?
yes.


anna

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forgetmenot
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Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:46 pm

HI Anna,

Really nice LOOKING!

So is it clear that there is no one who is thinking thought and there is no one that can control or predict thought?
Where exactly is a middle of a thought? Where does one thought end and another begin?
i dont know. ıt ıs just what ıt ıs. no need to thınk that somethıng ıs wrong.... that somewhere ıs a half thought...mıddle or end. ıt ıs just thought how ıt ıs.
There are not many different thoughtS....there is only thought. It is only thought that says that thought and the content of thought are many different thoughts. Thought, in and of itself, is meaningless, but what thought is, is experience/THIS itself appearing as thought.

So let's have a further look to see if thought is what controls or decides anything, and if there is anyone/anything that is in control or making decisions.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Granit
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:32 am

Re: I would request Forgetmenot as a guide

Postby Granit » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:36 pm

Hello Kay!


I tried to understand these words for 2 days...
There are not many different thoughtS....there is only thought. It is only thought that says that thought and the content of thought are many different thoughts. Thought, in and of itself, is meaningless, but what thought is, is experience/THIS itself appearing as thought.
Can u please tell this in different words with examples.. very hard to understand.

And i'm doing the exercise.. but without understanding of that i 'm stuck.

Anna :)


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