Stumbling Upon Bliss

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divineliving
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Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:14 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
I have been practicing the 5th way of the Sedona Method where I check to see if I can find the one who is having the feelings, thoughts, emotions at the moment and each time I check without going back into memory, I feel a profound sense of freedom. I have experienced my life from a whole new context where there is no doer, but just doing. It is not always there and since doing 5 - the doorway has expanded even further. I am studying Ken Wilber's work which is providing even greater access to living at a deeper level and when I saw there are Toad sessions in Mexico using your methodology I felt right at home and would really enjoy working with you

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
Opening that gate fully, like really forgetting the I and living from intention and purposeful action without doer, without seer, without feeler... being being being the truth of who I truly am. Releasing the I to it's full glory

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
5th way from the Sedona Method, Ramana Maharishi, Jeff Foster, What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it (Sailor Bob Adamson) and more. I float 2-4 hours a day in an isolation tank, practice 'I AM" and going beyond the 'I AM" beyond time and space. The toad experience having been the most profound to date and the work since then.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? 11

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Ilona
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi divineliving!
Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.
What are you looking for? Can you tell me more precisely what is that you expect to get from this conversation.
I'm happy to work with you, but I need your complete honesty and replies from own experience rather than something you learned from other teachers.

Looking forward to our conversation

Ps. Nice to hear that you experienced the toad!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:50 pm

Ilona,

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am clear - in my mind that there there is no 'me' that we are all one (ie, from other teachers :-) ) ... or at least I think so, and yet I have this attraction to this woman for over 12 years where without her there appears to be something missing.. but how can that be if there is no me or her? each time we have broken up, something else has opened up. We are not together right now, but both love each other. it is in this last breakup that I experienced toad and a whole new world has been unleashing in front of my very own eyes. floating (ie, flotation tank I own) in states of wide open space for 2-4 hours on a regular basis... and something is also 'different' in day to day activities. I'd like a conversation with you in expanding this - opening the gates fully.

There is a a 'fear' that remains to totally let go, totally let go of that child that was scared as a kid that still thinks he runs the show, that is awkward, that is fake, that is protecting himself, that does feel he fits in in this world. A desire for grounding into the truth of who I am even deeper, even more surrendering into this truth. As you say, not from some 'other teacher' but as the true experience of who I am, which I have touched with Toad several times already. When I had done the Sedona Method, after one of their courses, it was surreal, ie.. there was no me getting up, getting up was happening, programming was happening.. and my business grown exponentially.. then somehow.. I am finding an "I" that is resisting part of this... or at least it appears so...

Setting intention and getting out of my own way and an even deeper level that I'd like to get out of this conversation.

Thank you Ilona

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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:33 pm

thank you for you answers.
you say you are clear that there is no such "me" and all is one, then you say that you experience longing for a particular woman and that does not make sense to you.
at which point then life starts happening not as you but to you?
the question to ask is are particular sensations (o longing, missing, loving) happening to a person? these are intimate and personal sensations, you could say, but are they happening to someone?

right now, feel those feelings about the woman and look for yourself, is there a feeler? is there a gap between sensation, sensing and the sensed?

you don't need to let go of the child. just see for yourself, that what you think you are is a figment of the imagination. a mind created image of a person, through stories.
are you here without your story?
is the story you?


write soon!
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:27 pm

Thank you Ilona,

Looking directly at the truth seems to always have a very freeing effect indeed! 'not to you, but as you'.. hummm... yes... just reading your sharing opens up the 5 experience... where indeed there is no gap... between the sensation, the sensing and the sensed... thank you!

Yes I am here without my story, yes, I am here. And there is this very faint 'fear' to fully let that I be.. as a memory... like if I were to have a 'life' threatening event (monetary of physically)... the 'story' would show up as a 'to me' again... yet right now... I feel the freedom of the truth of who I am...

is the story me? mentally, I am all the stories ever told, yet identified to none. Who/what is this pattern of mind body sensations and reactions that gets annoyed, that when tired and listening to someone on the phone who increases their emotional energy, I hang up on them? Who is this I that judges others ( albeit so much less), or who needs things a particular way in order to feel comfortable, safe and at ease?

Who is this I that when confronted with loud noises, his adrenalin goes up, be it a screaming kid, loud music, dogs barking, cars screeching breaks and thus being 'over sensitive' and a pain to deal with. Ie.. Those around me are not bothered by such noises, but I am.

Yes, I am here without my story, and these body/mind/world reactions show up as much as they do and as much as they don't.

Thank you for being in conversation with me,

alberto

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Ilona
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:44 am

Nice!
is the story me? mentally, I am all the stories ever told, yet identified to none. Who/what is this pattern of mind body sensations and reactions that gets annoyed, that when tired and listening to someone on the phone who increases their emotional energy, I hang up on them? Who is this I that judges others ( albeit so much less), or who needs things a particular way in order to feel comfortable, safe and at ease?

Who is this I that when confronted with loud noises, his adrenalin goes up, be it a screaming kid, loud music, dogs barking, cars screeching breaks and thus being 'over sensitive' and a pain to deal with. Ie.. Those around me are not bothered by such noises, but I am.
Well, there is no I. None as in zero. Never was. Never will be. There is nothing there that could be called Who. Who is a construct of language. A question itself that spassumes a subject. It's how language works. It separates a subject from action and makes it appear that the subject is the doer of action. The language itself creates the illusion of a separate being.
Look, saying this: I am sitting in a chair. Is there I that does sitting? Find the sensation of "sitting in the chair" and find the I that does that. Hm.

So asking a who question is not useful. It's flawed. It's asking to confirm delusion. But it also is our only way to communicate, through the language that we have got. And speaking without using subject would make you sound weird.

Here is an exercise http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
Do it here or on paper. Tell me, does using I, me, mine words for describing change what is happening? Do these labels have an effect on reality? What do they have effect on?
Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:23 am

Hi Ilona! So much has happened since you last wrote! This past Friday I had 12 grams of Mushrooms and had an 8 hour most profound and expansive experience that was so familiar and beautiful. I did not think I would get out of it (in a good way).. Ie, that would be 'my' experience going forward only to find myself 12 hours later in this 'imaginary' ego 'ordinary' stance (rather than being and noticing the extraordinary in the ordinary moment by moment)

A friend whose first Sedona Method instructor was Pamela Wilson - whom I had sent your 'deep looking' link to (and he saw Pam's name referred to there) suggested I watch this video - https://youtu.be/CiFgLoVEmhU and I was instantly back in that specious state of the truth of who I am, we all are.

I did not write then because I wanted to do your suggested exercise. I floated several times for 3 hours after the mushroom experience (Sunday and Monday morning) and I was able to launch both times and I was quite pleased to recognize that it is always a choice let go of 'I' and rest in that deep awareness.

In one of those floats I practiced your 20 minute technique and I simply found myself even deeper within that vast open space once again… Very powerful and brilliant on your part. And to answer your question, the 'labels' actually do 'appear' to have an impact from my direct experience doing the exercise ( albeit in complete darkness in the isolation tank)… ie… these 'i' labels restricted the flow of or experience of the truth of who we are. In other words these labels are not only 'not adding value to the 'now' experience but rather diminishing that very experience we are.

Then on Wednesday (yesterday) I enjoyed an even more expansive experience with 5-MEO-DMT which I am still in :-) Glorious, glorious, glorious deep dive, and yet a gal who did it for the first time, saw me ( as i was holding space for her) as the 'devil'… I kept on loving her and holding space for her, but somehow I felt and now 'believe' that these medicines requires some non dual/Adavaita and frankly your Pointing Technique in order to get the most value from these medicines. Both as an 'experience' and more importantly as the life being lived afterwards.

I am blessed that Hale Dwaskin from the Seonda Method created the 5th way - see here https://youtu.be/CiFgLoVEmhU which, as I had shared with you previously has been quite profound to say least ( ie the deepest experience I had experienced up to that point - 3 yearsa go, with or without medicines) - that is before 5 MEO-DMT (October 14th 2016)

And I think I had shared with you that the reason I that I am doing the Retreat in Mexico with Barnaby in April 2017, is BECAUSE he is incorporating your direct pointing technique which frankly, in my opinion, is the 5th way expanded exponentially in all directions as it is the sole intention of your work to totally dissolve any sense of 'I' and experience freedom at a profound level. Thank you thank you thank you!

Thank you as well for expanding on the fact that there is no 'who' and a 'who' question if a flawed question! I re-read your example… there is no 'I' sitting in the chair, there is a body/mind/world sitting in the chair.. Of course!

I'd like to go back to your question: At which point then does life start happening not as you but to you? I absolutely LOVE that.. In other words could I allow myself ongoingly and with ease experience life as happening as me rather than to me? Is that not and has always been the truth? Would you mind saying more about that?

And also about this:  is there a gap between sensation, sensing and the sensed? 

What is the distinction between sensation and sensed? As I directly look at my direct experience there is no gap between sensing and sensation as it relates to this special woman and my experience is one of ease as I meditate in this question. A sense of pure and delightful love, presence and joy. As I re-read this now - would 'sensed' be the actual port of the body that is experiencing the sensation?

BTW.. I want to share with you that you WERE in my Mushroom experience, fully alive and guiding me in my inner journey of no I,but rather, experience experiencing itself.

Thank you Ilona for your deep love of the truth of who we are and guiding others in this path of freedom, ease and love.

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:33 am

Opps... 'part of the body' not 'port' in

would 'sensed' be the actual part of the body that is experiencing the sensation?

.. and the 5th way link is this one ... https://1drv.ms/b/s!AijbAlqr9oBnlpFzeE-yr6j2kHw9Tg

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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:39 pm

Thank you for a lovely post! It's a pleasure to communicate with you. Amazing that I came to your trip, and it was experienced in vivid colour :)
I watched a couple of Pamela's videos, thanks for the link. It was great to listen to her again. I've heard of the Fith way too.


Ok, let's focus back on inquiry. States come and go. What does not come and go?

The forms, appearances, interactions are witnessed,
Is there a witness?

Is there a being or BEing (verb)

Much love.
(Ps I will too soon be in Mexico ;)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:56 pm

Thanks Ilana,

In Mexico during the same retreat?

But the quick question I have as I delve back into inquiry is.. what do you mean by states? in this statement?

"States come and go"

Alberto

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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:39 am

What I mean by states is all that comes and goes. Happy, sad, high, low, thoughts feelings, perceptions, nothing is permanent. Everything is in constant motion, even if it appears as stuckness.

Question is, what does not change?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:15 am

Hi Ilana,

Thank you for the clarification. what appears to not change is the witness, the I AM that is ever present, without labels, without judgment, beyond time and space.

As I check within to see if I can 'observe' the witness, what I experience every time I check, is an ever expanding spaciousness that is sublime.

and as i check if there is a specific 'being' it is the same as above, the checking for me provides access to that expansive spaciousness. And I appear to experience 'BEing' as verb.

Thanks!

Alberto

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divineliving
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:16 am

And yet there seems to be an 'I' that keeps on mispelling your name.. yikes...

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Ilona
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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby Ilona » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:01 am

Thank you for reply!
It seems that there is an i to blame for misspelling my name! Hahaha

So what else does this mischievous I do?
Does it come and go?
Is it a thought, feeling, sensation?
Where is it now?

Let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Stumbling Upon Bliss

Postby divineliving » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:25 pm

Yes Ilona,

lets get to the bottom of this!

So what else does this mischievous I do?

Wow.. apparently this mischievious I is telling me that I am dislexic and therefore I need to pay much more attention (which is a good thing if it were not with all the extra apparent effort), this I is also apparently feeling concern of his move from Tucson to Puerto Rico, or more like sensations often called 'stress' in so much to do in so little time. I leave on the 3rd of January and will spend 80% there. Yesterday the 'I' had a strong sense that it wanted to 'talk/share' with someone.. so I allowed I to fully feel that, and in doing so it felt better... but spoken correctly 'I' would have said... sensations of longing occured and when observed and cherished they vanished...

Does it come and go? yes

Is it a thought, feeling, sensation?
Where is it now?

Thoughts and feelings and sensations... haha... no where as we speak.. or more like a I write and re-read :-) and retype..

Yes, lets get to the bottom of this! Who are we kidding, the I does not need to be incharged, and it never really is anyway, and I must look within and check to see when it is thinking it is running the show when it can actually relax into the truth of who he is...

Who is writing that above? or writing just happening... who is breathing or is breathing just happening, how about when the 'I' thinks it is intentionally breathing air in? is that the I, or that simply other deep breath being breathed?

I will keep on checking within as you encouraged in one of your podcasts.. I know, there is no I, but the knowing does not provide much access to 'freedom'.. it is more in the checking rather than remembering and creating a habit of checking more frequently...

With this move to Puerto Rico, the apparent 'preassure' imposed on myself to make it happen, appears to take away a tad of the 5 experience that is still around me since last Wednesday. So where is that sensation now? being expressed into its full glory :-)

Love,

Alberto


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