Is this the first fetter?

[IceSol]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by this that there is nobody here making decisions and thinking thoughts on my behalf, that decisions happen by themselves and thoughts appear by themselves.

What are you looking for at LU?
Well, I have doubts about my awakening. Has it happened? Why am I always so confused and ripped between taking thoughts seriously and knowing that they aren’t significant? Did I actually wake up or break through the first fetter? Then why do I get so caught up in thoughts and ideas of becoming someone important, or useful, or well-liked? Why do I struggle to accept myself, parts of my history and family members? Why do I suffer still on a day to day basis while the mystery is looking me directly in the face? The mystery is easy to see, but yet is that it? I don’t have a good timeline about what’s happened or what has shifted in me over the years but it’s undeniable something happened at some point. I used to think I had to phrase things in the perfect way and use nonduality language, this has decreased substantially, but there’s still this ache to be validated.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope to see through the illusions I described above, in a way that permeates every moment of life rather than just in moments of quiet contemplation. I want to alleviate my doubts, I want to be grounded in awakening.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I practice inquiry pretty regularly, likely daily but the practice ebs and flows. I meditate sporadically. I used to meditate more several years ago, but I fell out of the habit. I’ve been in this nonduality and awakening space for about 5 years. I started with Spiritual Awakening The Damndest Thing by Jed McKenna, went on to Angelo, Adyashanti and Tara Brach and some other spiritual teachers online.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

Fetters 1. 2 & 3 tend to drop together. That's as far as we go at LU. When we're done, I can point you to additional guidance.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

The authors you listed are all some I know to be valid & awake, but your awakening will be your own.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Do you still want to be guided here...?

[IceSol]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you for reaching out to me again today, the previous email went straight past me. I will be posting now everyday as often as I can!

First of all, I have read the disclaimer.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Sol. I’m in Greenwich Mean Time.

Now I’ll answer your questions:

How will life change?

Life won’t be scary. Life will feel natural, ok, like it was supposed to be this way the whole time. My current existencial fear won’t apply anymore. More clarity.

How will you change?

I won’t be self absorbed. I won’t be socially anxious. I will be more present. I won’t think as much, so my brain can’t be running on repetitive and cruel thoughts all the time about myself. I won’t be seeking approval anymore from other people. I will do more good work and be more active in the world and less in bed with my thoughts.

What will be different?

I don’t know. I mean I guess it’ll be the same, but existing in the universe and being this person won’t feel wrong anymore.

What is missing?

Needing to be special. Self-absorption. Doubt about the validity of my direct experience. Overwhelm.

I’m looking forward to getting started with you, thank you!

Best,
Sol

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sol,

All of those things will still require work but this will help some. This is just a beginning.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Lovng

[IceSol]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for the fast reply! I’m still awake, so I wanted to send another message before bed.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

I believe that the separate self is a made up story. I also believe that this belief is in opposition to the beliefs of the society and culture I live in, what my parents taught me, and what my friends and family believe. To me it looks like people look at the fact of their existence as mundane and their selves justified. But I feel disoriented and unjustified much of the time - so the self being just a story also brings up feelings of loneliness, homesickness, wanting to belong.

I don’t feel at home when I’m selfing. There’s this ambivalence, like I am doing something and I’m thinking I am doing this thing, but I feel like there’s something uncanny in it. Sometimes the uncanniness only comes much later, so while I’m acting out this drama of my life “I’m so overwhelmed with this project at work” or “I can’t believe she would do that to me” I can go on and on into this story, maybe even for hours, there’s a feeling of unease in my stomach like I’m lying, but I only have awareness that I had become totally immersed in the plot later. Then I try to understand and see the things in front of my nose, but clarity is rare and oftentimes I hit a wall of confusion and just disassociate into more selfing, distraction, etc.

I’m tired.

Best,
Sol

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sol,

That's partly what we're here to clezr up, although The Work of Byron Katie is better for a pacific stories like you listed. www.thework.com




This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[IceSol]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am clear about this.

I think it’s interesting language you’re using, I’ve mostly heard people say “knowing” to mean your “seeing” and “believing” to mean your “knowing”
That’s actually been a hang up for me.
I’m thinking that I’m seeing but really I’m just knowing and sometimes it’s very convincing.

But seeing is different yes. It’s immediately obvious and has no explanation.

Best,
Sol

[IceSol]

By the way, I have done The Work before, and I will again. It has been very useful to me in the past, I don’t really remember why I stopped. Maybe a little of spiritual bypassing…

[Anastacia42]

Excellent.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[IceSol]

Hi Stacy,

I’ve been noting the direct experience as often as I’ve remembered to do so that past two days.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Seeing the actors on the stage, simply = image
Hearing singing and a full band playing, simply = sound
Smelling smoke from the smoke machine, simply = smell
Feeling a restless/ high energetic feeling in my legs, simply = sensation
Thoughts that the performance is beautiful but that I’m tired, simply = thought
Seeing my iPad, simply = image
Hearing the light taps of my fingers on the screen, Simply = sound
Thinking about what experiences I’m going to write down, simply = thought
Scratching my cheek, simply = sensation

Best,
Sol

[IceSol]

Hi, are you still there?

[Anastacia42]

Yes. The forum has been down. I don't know if it's solved, yet. And I'm not being notified of posts. but I keep checking manually.


Your answers are good. Now try this.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving