Looking for my true nature

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

Thank you for this exercise, it's been helpful.

Another approach (I don't even know if it can be called an approach) that's very useful, and has become kinda automatic right now, is that when emotions arise I immediately go to the body and the sensations that are already there and stay there, just look and feel everything. Realizing that no emotion can hurt me, that it's just the body contracting or expanding plus a series of thoughts and labels, that was very liberating.

Feeling some sadness right now, but it's just tiredness in the body, hunger (contraction in the stomach) and some thoughts about the me being sad.

In the last weeks I've felt the urge to share this initial glimpse with other people, and I've talked about it a couple times with people close to me who I knew could accept and "understand". I'm not sure this is good for the process though. There are more "me" thoughts now about "I" being special for realizing something or being smarter. The doubt thought too are stronger now: "you are deluding yourself", "this is not true", "you're an imposter posing as an awakened individual" etc.

Yesterday I was really in the flow for hours (nobody was in the flow but you know what I mean). Today it feels like some of the "me" thoughts are still believed and doubt is still there. This is still not seen clearly beyond any possible doubt.

Thank you for staying with me and helping me through this out of pure kindness, I feel very grateful.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Davide

You're doing great. All of these thoughts are normal. Just let them go. Share with others when you feel like it. I call this creating world peace, one mind at a time. I'm happy to help.

Yes. feeling in the flow is wonderful. We feel sadness when we want something different than what is, or argue with reality, as Byron Katie says.

You know, there are a couple of teleconference groups where you can talk to others about this. You could attend those.

One model for looking at this is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Vince also has a YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

There's a sense of wonder, lightness and openness,

It may be that you're already seeing there is no separate self & are going through the coming & going mentioned in those 2 videos I shared earlier.

Loving

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

You were right, sometimes there are thoughts that seemingly obscure the realization, but then it comes back.

I'm looking at what's behind fear. Saying things like "There is no separate me now and there never was one" and feeling a slight fear sensation appearing, then asking to that fear "What are you protecting?". This exercise revealed a couple of hidden beliefs:

1. If the me never existed, even in the past, then the "me thought" feels like it's really being "killed". I don't know if this makes sense. Obviously it's just a story with no real substance, but the me is still afraid of not existing. Makes no sense I know.

2. This one is stronger: if there's no one owning the body, then the body cannot make the "me" "proud" by being strong or by looking good. The me is afraid of losing a source of validation in the body. This too doesn't make a lot of sense, but in the story the me got a lot of validation from the world for having an healthy and strong body and it's scared of "losing" it. How can a thought get validation? It's absurd.

Looks like both this beliefs touch on deep existential fear, fear of not existing.

Thank you for the links, I'm already aware of the 10 fetters model and I think I might have broken the 1st and working on the 2nd, who knows, it's a good map though.

I already joined a meeting with Pernille and Todd and joined their Discord server, they are awesome. Thank you for introducing me to Vince Schubert, I didn't know about his zoom meetings, I will join them in the next days. I checked the countdown timers on Vince's website and they point to different times than the ones you wrote me (looks like on the website they are scheduled 2 hours later). I'm on Europe/Rome (GMT+1) and Sydney is on GMT+11.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Because there has never been a "self," there's nothing to be "killed" at all. How can you kill something that doesn't exist?

Yes the second one is also absurd

Vince's materials are great. You might also look at Angelo Dillulo. His book Awake: It's Your Turn, is good.

Keep posting here how it's going.

Let me know when you can say for sure 100% there is no separate self, even if thinking is obscuring it sometimes.

Have you had a shift in perception?

We have some traditional checkpoint questions that I can offer you at that point.

Loving

[NappingCat]

There's been a big shift about one month ago, thanks to the pointing of a kind person found through the awakening collective website. Shaking and laughing and crying for hours, that kind of event. Then a lot of doubt thoughts appeared in the following days, me thoughts too reappeared and I started writing here and working with you. This is what comes up right now in the form of memory thoughts.

Angelo DiLullo is awesome, he's the one who made me understand that this kind of realization was really possible. I've read his book twice, the first time before the shift and then again after.

This morning it became very clear again: I was practising yoga (the body was practising) and in the flow of the different positions it became very obvious: there's this mechanism in place where the mind continuously fabricates thoughts, including doubts about the awakening process and the idea of awakening itself, it's all just part of the story. The me that has doubts about really having a shift or being not smart enough to have this realization is still just a thought, a character in the story.

I still don't feel like I'm 100% sure, but I strongly feel like I'm getting there, I don't even know why. This "getting there" is obviously part of the story but I don't know how to express differently.

I will continue reporting here and let you know when I'm ready for these checkpoint questions.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Okay. You're just having some doubts. Have you watched Pernille's videos on doubt?

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

Loving

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

Yes, all Pernille lessons about the 2nd fetter have been watched. I'll rewatch them more carefully.

Something about time is still not 100% clear. Past, future and memories are just thoughts and concepts, that is clear, but still it really feels like things really happened because of the effects that appear here and now. For example: there's a memory of the body doing yoga yesterday... it's just an image, a thought appearing now, even if it seems to be "about" yesterday, but at the same time the body feels sore from the exercise. So, is the soreness proof that something really happened and there's a "before" that is not here anymore? I can see that this doubt, this question only exists in the mind and the causality too is only a thought, that "soreness + memory of exercising = proof of time existing" is another thought, but it's one that seems to make a strong case for the existence of time.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Hi Davide

Yes, all are still just a thought.

I can't come between you & your mind being taken in by this illusion.

But check. Where is the yoga now? Can you see it? Hear it? Feel it? In this moment?


Your mind can keep playing this game but that doesn't make it real.

Loving

[NappingCat]

Nevermind, it's clear that thoughts always come later, so the past can never be accessed, it's always the mind labeling and pointing to something else, even if it's about something that supposedly happened some milliseconds before. The past is never here, is never directly experienced. Truth can only be relative, can only exist in the relative world of thoughts. Soreness + memory of exercising = time in action is just a "relative" truth that says nothing about what's here. Maybe it's because there's really no truth that can be said?

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Good, Davide

Are you ready for the checkpoint questions? I've posted them below. Other guides will read them & may have questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[Anastacia42]

Thursday 19th of March
MEETING WITH ILONA TODAY
 
Hello

The Shift in Perception Simplified

At the next Zoom meeting, I will share something that can help you see what this shift in perception actually is.

I’ve been exploring this with my private clients, and now I’d like to open it to you as well, and to those who follow my YouTube channel. It is very simple and easy to see visually. When it clicks, it becomes clear why working on problems doesn’t bring lasting peace, and how the shift happens in where you are looking from.

There is nothing mysterious about it. It is practical, direct, and available right here.

You are warmly invited to join the meeting. And if something comes up for you, you are welcome to bring your questions.


Seeing Through The Self Illusion

19th of March
90 min long

3 pm London
4 pm Paris
8 am San Francisco
11 am New York

Link to all monthly Zoom Meetings

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9143364592?pw ... VEMHg2Zz09

All group meetings are free. Just come.

If you would like to donate, I would appreciate it. You can do that through PayPal here.

With love,

Ilona

My Email address is:

admin@ilonaciunaite.com
(To sign up for notices)

[NappingCat]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, the me is just a thought, a belief. It only appears as thought content. It's always been like this, there's only always been a thought of "me" and a real me was never seen or experienced.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It's the belief that an entity that is separate from everything else exists, owns the body, creates and controls the thoughts. Maybe it starts during early childhood, out of survival instincts. The core belief in the separate me is established and from that moment on a million other thoughts that point to that original me thought fall into place. The story is being continually told and expanded and it gets reinforced by interacting with other body-minds that have the same foundational thought of the separate me. Years of conditioning obscure the real nature of this body-mind complex.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

At first the only thing that was different was that the belief in the me was seen through as false. Everything else was the same. Years of conditioning were still causing reactions and lots of doubts appeared as bodily sensations plus thoughts. Since the first shift there have been "minor" realizations that deepened the first major one. Now almost everyday something new is seen and it's like this process is taking care of itself. Everything is calmer than before. When emotions appear they are almost immediately seen as sensations in the body plus some thoughts. Sensations are deeply felt and staying with "negative" emotions comes natural, almost like it's the only possibility. Can't run away from what is already happening. Feeling of being "naked" or "penetrated by reality", even if there's no subject, only a body.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The first bi shift happened before this conversation. I was talking with a person I contacted through the Awakening Collective website. This person already had an awakening a couple years ago. I was telling her about the fact that I was feeling like I've been masking myself all my life, my life has been dominated by shame since childhood and I've always felt like I couldn't show my true personality if I wanted to be loved and accepted. This person made me realize that this masking I've been doing for so many years was maybe a sort of ritual. I saw the belief under this kind of ritual: that by doing something (masking) I could get something else (being accepted). I'm not sure this makes sense on a rational level, but it shook me up and I immediately started laughing and crying. Maybe seeing that there were two different layers of masking, the first one as a separate me, the second one as a "version of me that could be loved", was what broke the camel's back. The absurdity of that was immediately seen, it was too much even for a mind used to believe in an imaginary character for years. Obviously this is just a story that comes up right now, who knows if it's true or not. It doesn't matter.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

There's no decision and no one deciding. Thoughts appear from nowhere and there's nobody that chooses them. After a thought that looks like a decision appears, another thought comes and says "I've decided this". If the thought "I'm gonna raise my left hand right now" appears and then the left hand really raises, there's still no one who choose to think that thought or to raise the hand. Things happen and later thoughts appear and comment on what happened.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

There's no intention, only things happening. Intention can only be found in the story of the individual and is fabricated by the mind in the form of thoughts like "I want to do this" or "I don't want to do this". There's desire but upon inspection it looks like bodily sensations (contraction mostly) plus some thoughts about how getting something would be better than not having it.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

The me is just a thought and a thought cannot decide anything. How can a thought decide or do anything? It doesn't make sense. Life just happens in any moment, uninterrupted. The feeling of being in control is just another belief and comes from the story of the individual. It's clear that thoughts are not chosen or owned, so the entire concept of free will doesn't make any sense.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Same as free will. There's no one choosing, just choices happening. The concept of choice too is just a word: things are just happening freely and unconditionally, so the idea that something else could have been chosen doesn't make any sense. A choice exists only in thoughts. Maybe some pattern is recognized and based on that the mind creates alternative scenarios, giving the illusion that something happened or could happen "instead of something else". It's just a thought. I don't have the choice between going left or right: there are just two different scenarios created by the mind, then some thought about a decision appear and an action is performed. Last comes the thought that says "I choose left/right".

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is just another belief that rests in the belief in a separate self. The me character believes that it owns "his" thoughts, that it can choose them and that it has free will. Everything just happens freely and unconditionally, no control is needed. Does the heart need to be controlled to pump blood?

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing makes things happen, there's no apparent cause. Causes only exist in thoughts. The mind reflects reality and fragments it, dividing it in multiple parts: some of these parts can be labeled as causes or effects and those point to each other. The cause causes the effect, but the effect also solidifies the cause, both are mutually interdependent, as Buddhists say. In direct experience things just happen, the reason is just a thought that gest added by the mind at a later time.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

If there are no free will, control, intention, choice, decision, causes or effects, is there really responsibility? Who is responsible? Can a thought be responsible for something? There's just what happens. At the same time the desire to do bad things stems from the sense of separation, so maybe the more the realization deepens, the less need for rules there is?

6) Anything to add?

Thank you for guiding me and being so patient. It still feels like the tide, it comes and goes. The days where the realization is more clear are becoming more, but there are still days when it's obscured by doubt, anxiety and fear. Looks like this process has its own life and takes care of itself, so there's not much to do but feel, accept and let go. Anyway there's no one choosing one way or the other.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

That's all good, Davide! Stay tuned for confirmation here.

Loving,
Stacy

[Anastacia42]

Davide, there were no questions. Our conversions here are complete.


.If you want to connect with others, here are some groups:

Vince Shubert runs a few. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join. We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to: unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

Permille's videos on Doubt are best good.

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp


Angelo Dillulo's recordings on You Tube are also excellent.

I can offer these recorded guiding for further practice:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... hsk1a?dl=0

Ilona

admin@ilonaciunaite.com
To sign up for notices.


That's a lot. Check them out & see what resonates with you.

Loving ,

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

Hi already joined a meeting with Vince a few days ago, love him! I've also participated in Todd&Pernille and Ilona's meetings and will continue joining them when the need arises. I'm also on Todd&Pernille's Discord server.

I want to thank you again for helping me out of pure kindness and generosity, this kind of realization can really make the world a better place.

I'm not sure how it works behind the scenes but I'd really love to pay it forward and help other people see this if you think I can do it.

Love,

Davide