Mountain over Mountain

[Kwai9]

Hi Stacy,
I am sorry for the silence. I have listened to all the videos. I am exploring the walking pointers as well. I will write a discussion by the end of this weekend.
Thank you,
Larry

[Anastacia42]

Thank you for letting me know. Sometimes life gets busy.

Much love

[Anastacia42]

Hi Larry,

Still there? How's it going?

Loving,

[Kwai9]

Hi Stacy,
I am not losing interest. I got food poisoning and I am recovering.
I will return to our search soon.
Thank you,
Larry

[Anastacia42]

Ooo, food poisoning. That sounds like no fun.

Take whatever time you need.

Much love,

[Kwai9]

Hi Stacy,
I am a little better now so wanted to communicate.
I will start with the walking pointers:

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

There was an experience of this. I love how you expressed this. The words did point to part of the experience I couldn’t express myself. Yet I viewed it as an altered state of consciousness, like I have experienced after a retreat or shamanic journeying. The notion that this is how it is, “Notice that everything is part of one movement” is both spectacular and terrifying.
Which leads to doubt.
I listened to the videos. They focused on getting calm and dissolving the doubt by acknowledging it and letting it be. I don’t get this idea of staying with sensation or feeling with no expectation of change and then magic happens.
The speaker also got me when she clearly anticipated my response when she talked about the joy of experiencing. There are many experiences in my life that do not bring joy….I understand she is pointing to a very different view of life, but I don’t get it yet.

The walking experiences and our previous discussions are making this idea of no self possible in my mind which is progress. Years ago when I read about this in Buddhist or other literature I thought it was ridiculous. Now I think it is possible, if not likely and I think there is doubt and fear in the way (the speaker said they are the same thing…)

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good.

Let's look into the fears.

First, a video from Ilona:

https://youtu.be/4Gh-8rD3Digsi=b9jciFoNYPXLjg8W

Then this:

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Tell me what comes up with these for your fears.

Loving,

[Kwai9]

Hi Stacy,
Thanks for your response.

First, a video from Ilona:

That link you sent me didn’t go to Ilona, but I found this video from her:
“What happens when you face your fears”
Is that the one you wanted me to listen to?

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

You gave this one to me early on. I did see its usefulness in calming down a present situational fear, but viewed it as not able to re-solve or dis-solve the root of the fear. This time when I practiced it I saw something different, that is how living in direct experience - since thought content is less sticky - there is no fear.
Which brings us to a barrier maybe you could help me take on directly if it is time to do so or appropriate.That is my over-identification with thought content. It feels to me that it is the cause of suffering but there is an also a belief that it is a friend or even protector.
Am I seeing this correctly?
Thanks for hanging in there with me!
Larry

[Anastacia42]

Hi Larry,

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi

I need to delete that other one. It was a mistake a long time ago.

Everything we are doing here is to help you let go of identifying with the content of thought. The false idea of a self is content of thought and nothing else.

. Since there is fear getting in the way let's look at that first.

Loving,

[Kwai9]

Dear Stacy,
Yes…I am ready to take this on. It will be hard for me as my 70+ years of life have been based on avoiding fear so I figure it is time to truly face these beliefs.

. Since there is fear getting in the way let's look at that first.

I listened to Ilona work with the gentleman in the video. There was some insight for me. I always felt the approach was incomplete until I heard her say that the organism will handle it when the danger is actually real. There was sudden comfort in that, but for the “I” it requires faith and courage. These are 2 things my “I” has never had. Yet there does seem some cracking of beliefs.
At 73 my ongoing fears of illness etc (which I have had probably since my ruptured appendix experience at age 8) are peaking as death is closer than ever. I have heard Ilona say that fear of death is really fear of some direct experience and that learning to have no resistance to direct experience ends that fear (and if no self, no actual death once that is seen - perhaps my primary reason to fall back into the non-dual no self real nature).
Sorry for all the mind content, but thought I should get it out!
With great appreciation,
Larry

[Anastacia42]

Hi Larry,

First,

for the “I” it requires faith and courage. These are 2 things my “I” has never had.

This is all imaginary. There IS NO "I." So, what is left? Just thoughts. These meditations will help with those.

Alright, here is a link to my DropBox pointers.

Listen carefully to the Introduction. Do whatever pointers you like, but especially listen to "Zooming in on Death."

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/k1ph01pt ... 70h8o&dl=0

Loving,

[Kwai9]

Dear Stacy,
There have been 2 HUGE experiences based on your recommendation:

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

I went deep into safety, control and love. There was a seeing of what fear was protecting. All in all, there was increased acceptance of these sensations previously labeled as “bad” throughout the rest of the day. They still still are not “welcomed” or “loved” as Ilona would like them to be 😕.

Listen carefully to the Introduction. Do whatever pointers you like, but especially listen to "Zooming in on Death."

This was an amazing surprise and did change things. The notion that death is the “complete letting go” of the tension inherent in life and that moment of letting go an obvious transition into the “peace that Passeth understanding” (my experience) is a game changer.
So, I have had major insights, but I still listen to this voice in my head as if it runs the show!
Very grateful for the ongoing positive changes (more calm) in my experience of life.
Thanks so much,
Larry

[Anastacia42]

Larry. this is great. It will make accepting there is no "self" much easier. We're looking for a shift in perception.

I still listen to this voice in my head as if it runs the show!

Why? You clearly know it is a lie. Thoughts are made up, not real.

Keep LOOKING.

Believing these lies will pass, just like seeing that Santa Claus is nothing but a man in a red suit.

Loving,

[Kwai9]

Hi Stacy,

Keep LOOKING

So I looked for the problem solver as I have a belief that if I have no self, I won’t have the vigilance or intellect for innovation that I have now.
I couldn’t find it. I couldn’t find a doer either. Why do these observations not lead to a substantial “letting go” from the identity with that knot of thoughts called “I”?

[Anastacia42]

The answer to why is we don't know. It's a mystery. It happens when it does.

We have a doership pointer.

Try this one. Report how it FEELS to SEE.


Doership Exercise

You see that there is no self to be found. Now let’s have a look at the feeling of being a 'doer’.


Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then: Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.


Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).



So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off?

Can you NOT see what is seen?


Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?


What did the 'chooser' choose?

Did a 'self' choose something?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


Loving