Take 2 new guide needed please

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:46 pm

Hi Paul,

How are you?

What do you recommend I practice in times you are unable to post? I practice listening, feeling, seeing without thinking/labelling. Is that helpful?

Thanks,

Stacy

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Sun Dec 29, 2024 9:39 am

Hi Stacy,
These holidays are very busy with family and friends, thank you for your patience.
What do you recommend I practice in times you are unable to post? I practice listening, feeling, seeing without thinking/labelling. Is that helpful?
How does it feel to do these practices?

Does practicing listening, feeling, seeing without thinking/labelling require effort?

If it does who is making the effort?

Is thought required to make the effort?

When does the effort begin and when does it end?

who or what is starting the effort and finishing the effort?

Try it right now and look, can you make the effort with a thought, in this very instant?


This Dialogue is packed full of pointing and guiding, often when we are this deep, I point out to clients that it is very valuable to let go of all the memory and beliefs that are generated since the beginning of the dialogue and come at it with a clean slate. Re-read the dialogue from the beginning and redoing the exercises and answering the questions from a fresh set of eyes can be so revealing.

It can be re-read all at once or it can be in small chunks as you feel to do it. As you read this guiding the will be resistance to do it and there will be contracting sensations and immediately there will be thought stories that you will identify with, you may even start thinking of excuses as to why you don't want to do it. Look at this, and as you re-read the dialogue there will be more of these contractions and Thought stories, look at this.

There will be so many opportunities to look for this 'self', and when you can't find this 'self' there will be many opportunities to look for the 'sense of self,' and when you can't find the 'sense of self', then you can look to the thought stories to see this sense of self exists.

Let me know how you go.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:14 pm

Hi Paul,

Thank you for getting back to me in this busy time.
How does it feel to do these practices?
I feel hopeful but it is an effort. It keeps me awake at night cos I practice when I have the quiet time of trying to fall asleep.
Does practicing listening, feeling, seeing without thinking/labelling require effort?
It does! More than I had realised.
If it does who is making the effort?
The false identity, the so-called self.
Is thought required to make the effort?
Yes, though I am constantly trying to drop thought = efforting.
When does the effort begin and when does it end?
It starts and ends with thoughts.
Who or what is starting the effort and finishing the effort?
The false self.
Try it right now and look, can you make the effort with a thought, in this very instant?
No, no I can't.

I will spend the next few days rereading our posts from the beginning then get back to you again. I had thought to do that when I hadn't heard from you but hadn't started yet.

All the best over the new year festivities!

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Sat Jan 11, 2025 2:59 am

Hi Stacy,
Happy New Year.
Just checking in to see how you are going.
No rush, we can continue when you are ready.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:04 am

Hi Paul,

Happy new year! Thank you for checking in.

I am still reading through our posts. I have been practising DE daily, and feeling into the sense of Me that still lingers.

What else could I be doing to wake up?

Thanks.

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:13 am

Hi Stacy,
if you remember, the exercise to put a "T" after a thought answer and an "E" after an Experiential answer.

This is a good practice to help identify the difference between thinking and an experience, you can do this when you are reading through the dialogue and you can also do this when you are living. ,make a mental note ie that was a thought, or that was an experience.

Experience + thoughts or - thoughts makes something an experience.
Thoughts without an experience makes something a concept.

The senses are experienced.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:35 pm

Hi Paul,

Thank you! I get now that thoughts without an experience is just a concept, and that it's okay to have thoughts with an experience, that is still an experience.

I will practice this too for the rest of the week then report back.

:)

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:38 pm

Hi Paul,

Is it possible to use the brain/mind to listen/hear? I lie in bed at night focussing on the experience of listening but it feels like I am doing it from Mind. I realised I am also using Mind when I feel into the sensation of my head on the pillow, etc.

Can experiencing wake us up? I find I am using the senses for DE but half expecting something to happen while I'm at it.

Thanks,

Stacy

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:00 am

Hi Stacy,
Is it possible to use the brain/mind to listen/hear? I lie in bed at night focussing on the experience of listening but it feels like I am doing it from Mind. I realised I am also using Mind when I feel into the sensation of my head on the pillow, etc.
Sound for example is experienced in the ear. Sound isn't over there, the experience is in the ear. When you label sound, "oh that's a bird singing" this is thought.
Can thought experience the sound?

When you lie your head on the pillow, what is sensorially experienced in what is happening and what is imagination/thought labelling the experience?

Thought content is also not sensorially experienced.
Can experiencing wake us up? I find I am using the senses for DE but half expecting something to happen while I'm at it.
Is the expecting appearing in thought?

Lets come at this from a new pointing. It may seem like we are repeating and you already Know this, but if you let go of that belief and work through this exercise, there is always the possibility that some space opens up for something new to enter.

Thoughts
Now, notice your thoughts. Thoughts are a very interesting phenomenon. It is clear that thoughts arise. You will see that they appear mostly as words and mental images.Thoughts are not your enemy. Without thoughts, you wouldn’t be able to speak, you wouldn’t have words. Thinking is silent speaking.
Thoughts are there, they can be noticed. What about the content of thoughts? Is the content of thought a sensory experience? Try this experiment and find out:
CLOSE YOUR EYES
Think of your favorite fruit. See it lying on the table in front of you. Look at it carefully. Take note of the different colors and shades.
Then take the fruit into your hand. Feel the weight. Smell it. Take a knife and peel or cut it. Feel the slightly sticky juice running over your fingers. Have a bite. How does it taste, is it sweet or sour? Juicy or rather dry?

OPEN YOUR EYES
Where is the fruit?
Did you think “gone“?
Was it ever there?
No, it wasn’t. It was only a mental image even though your mouth may have watered. The brain can’t tell the difference between imagination and a sensory experience.
The content of thoughts is never sensorially experienced. What we think of is always imagined, even if it also exists outside of our thoughts.

Facts or Fiction

Do this for 1 min. and as often as possible:
1) Check what the thoughts are about.
2) Then notice what can be seen, heard, touched, smelled and tasted. No need to complicate it, ‘tree, car, chair, cigarette smoke’ are good enough.
3) Are the thoughts in any way related to the life your body is experiencing right now? What did you find?

Usually, thoughts are unrelated to what is actually happening. You might not even notice what is happening when you’re absorbed in thoughts. The thought world is fictional, the sensory world represents the facts. Awakening can only be found in the realm of facts, in the sensory world. Don’t look for it in the fictional world of thoughts.
Looking for awakening using thoughts would be like the man who searched for his keys under the street light.
Another man passed by and asked, “Can I help you? What are you looking for?”
The searching man looked up and replied, “I’m looking for my keys.”
“Where did you lose them?”
“Over there” said the man, pointing to a very dark spot.
“Why are you looking under the streetlight then?” asked the bypasser, “they won’t be there”.
“Because it is brighter here” replied the man.
When we try to explore our thoughts for a ‘me’, we are looking under the streetlight. But the truth can only be found in our sensory experience.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:17 am

Hi Paul,

This post was very helpful!
Can thought experience the sound?
No, it just labels it.
When you lie your head on the pillow, what is sensorially experienced in what is happening and what is imagination/thought labelling the experience?
The sensory experience is between the head and the pillow, then Mind labels what is happening.
Is the expecting appearing in thought?
Yes, it is.

The imagination exercise showed me that the mind tricks me into thinking that the contents of thought can be sensory - I thought that my mouth watering was a sensory experience. It seems this is how the Mind keeps me stuck in the illusion, I nearly fell for it!
Are the thoughts in any way related to the life your body is experiencing right now? What did you find?
Random thoughts, no but a thought like "I'm cold" seems to be directly related to the physiological experience. That's all part of the trickery though, isn't it?

Awakening can only be found in the realm of facts, in the sensory world. Don’t look for it in the fictional world of thoughts. That is a very helpful pointer. Thank you!

I am still reading through our previous posts but I very much appreciate the additional guidance in the meantime ❤️

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Tue Feb 04, 2025 1:18 pm

Hi Stacy,
Thought I’d check in, see how you’re going.

So far you’ve explored which sensory experiences are
called names like “rose smell”, “a car passing”, or “warm
water”.
You may also have found that it is not easy to describe
the actual experience itself, as it is often so much more
complex than words can describe.

The question you will ask yourself in many variations
during this inquiry is:
Which experience is ‘I’ the name for?
You can use this question whenever the sense of ‘I’ is
present and see what can be found.
If you want to, you can simply do the whole inquiry with
this one question.
Feel free to use the word ‘self’, ‘me’, or ‘the ego’, instead
of ‘I’, if one of these words resonate more.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.

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Stacyg888
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:38 am

Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Tue Feb 04, 2025 7:32 pm

Hi Paul,

Thanks for checking in. I was going to message you today and you beat me to it 😜
Which experience is ‘I’ the name for?
I will keep enquiring on this.

In re-reading our precious posts, I feel I don't know if the answers I gave to many of your questions were accurate. You don't say yes or no. I feel that might be helpful in pointing me in the right direction.

In the meantime though, I am seeing Stacy as a character playing a role, like watching her from the outside, interested to see what she does next. I am also going with the flow of life, huge acceptance that I don't control any of it so why bother trying. There is a lot more ease and peace with that, just annoyance when others still try to control me! Haha

It seems there is some unfolding happening, just not dropping the sense of Me or I yet. Which experience is I the name for? I will sit with this.

Thank you, Paul. I hope you have been well.

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Stacyg888
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby Stacyg888 » Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:12 pm

Hi Paul,

I/ego/self is the name for the experience of hearing, seeing, tasting, sensing, smelling and thinking.

:)

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CarefulDog88
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Re: Take 2 new guide needed please

Postby CarefulDog88 » Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:37 pm

Hi Stacy,
Thank you for your patience.
You don't say yes or no. I feel that might be helpful in pointing me in the right direction.
No point in saying yes or no, I only ask the questions to help point you in the direction, then it unfolds as it unfolds and any understanding arrived at is authentic.
I am seeing Stacy as a character playing a role, like watching her from the outside
Who is seeing Stacy? Is there a separate entity looking or is it one thought looking at another thought from memory which is again thought?
I/ego/self is the name for the experience of hearing, seeing, tasting, sensing, smelling and thinking.
Can you expand on this further, is the 'I' the experiencer or is it the experience? expand your answer please

Lets try this exercise

What Feels the Touch?
Lay your fingers on your keyboard or table. Don’t lay them on your thighs, because then you have two touch impressions to deal with, which is a bit complicated.
1.
Focus on the sensations only, not on the words or labels that describe the experience. Feel the touch sensations. What is actually experienced?
2.
Can the border between the fingers and the keyboard be felt? If so, exactly which sensation is called ‘border’?
3.
Is there a ‘feeler’?
Repeat this experiment with the touch sensations that can be felt when sitting on a chair or standing.
With Loving Kindness
Paul


What you long for is already constantly you.
It's simply what's happening.


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