ok

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:44 pm

Luchana, today, I am wanting to inquire these questions with you to myself

What is the Fear itself?
when really looking, what comes up is thought, anger, insecurities a sense of protection

What is it protecting?
when really looking, the Fear, has a sense of feeling of feeling, but to say fear has a feeling tells me it is a person feeling. So when fear arises, there are sensations in this body along with thoughts of guilt and shame. It appears to be protecting, an identity, a story. Indira's story of someone else, the thoughts bring up a particular person.

What needs to be protected?
when really looking, No one, what is behind no one, is nothing. Sitting in that is pure formless space, quietness, what arises is hearing, shapes, colors, my bum on the sofa, typing. There is literally no one when looking

What is it that feels threatened?
when really looking, just thoughts of a soppinsingly a separate entity, claiming it is real. when looking, there is No one Luchana

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:57 pm

In asking the fear why is it here?
here is the answer, when really looking, it says, 'I want to protect you, 'I dont want you to get hurt. its important that you see others as monsters so you can be safe. "i love you and dont want you to get hurt. I have been here for you for a long time. I have never strayed you. You are my friend. I want you to be happy all the time.

My response to the fear.
Thank you so much for being honest in sharing with me how you feel. I honor you and respect you for feeling vulnerable

When looking what is behind this Fear, is there anything behind it?
When really looking, there is no one
what feeling is coming up?

A sense of relief, everything is ok right here, right now, a feeling of safety right here

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:59 pm

There other thing i wanted to add in response to the Fear that expressed itself

I love you.

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Luchana
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Re: ok

Postby Luchana » Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:59 am

Hi Indira,
wow! What a beautiful reflection!
I'm touched by your openness and vulnerability.
i want to answer this question again, In this moment nothing. As far as what was written about credit cards, when looking, spending just happened, there was no control only just doing. The thoughts about it are just thoughts claiming responcibilty. Thoughts of dollar amounts, thoughts of the future, fear thoughts happening now all day today about it..Those thoughts, there is no control. There is slight relief in looking right now, really looking. There is no bad person or someone doing anything as the thoughts claim. Just fearful thoughts appearing about the card. Right now, nothing is happening just typing, sitting happening, breathing. All is well in this moment.WoW!
YES> No responsibility means no one separate to be responsible. Responsibility (like paying bills, taking care of a closed ones happens.

And it is so common for the fear or fearful thoughts to show up... They come for everyone.
Let's look now at fear together.
What is the Fear itself?
when really looking, what comes up is thought, anger, insecurities a sense of protection

What is it protecting?
when really looking, the Fear, has a sense of feeling of feeling, but to say fear has a feeling tells me it is a person feeling. So when fear arises, there are sensations in this body along with thoughts of guilt and shame. It appears to be protecting, an identity, a story. Indira's story of someone else, the thoughts bring up a particular person.

What needs to be protected?
when really looking, No one, what is behind no one, is nothing. Sitting in that is pure formless space, quietness, what arises is hearing, shapes, colors, my bum on the sofa, typing. There is literally no one when looking

What is it that feels threatened?
when really looking, just thoughts of a soppinsingly a separate entity, claiming it is real. when looking, there is No one Luchana
Can you bring the sensation of fear really close, be intimate with it.
And feel the energy. Without paying attention to ANY thought - is there something else than the sensation itself?

This sensation is a great protective mechanism, as if it protects something.
But as you've noticed. - there is nothing there which needs protection.

How do you feel now?
Is it still strong? Or it softens?

Sending you much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Wed Dec 06, 2023 3:24 pm

Can you bring the sensation of fear really close, be intimate with it.
And feel the energy. Without paying attention to ANY thought - is there something else than the sensation itself?

This sensation is a great protective mechanism, as if it protects something.
But as you've noticed. - there is nothing there which needs protection.

How do you feel now?
Is it still strong? Or it softens?

In this moment, right now, there is no fear. Will keep this question for whenever fear arises..Will use it then.

Yes, it was quite beautiful, seeing nothing behind the fear. Today, this moment, the fear has soften..Very good question.

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Luchana
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Re: ok

Postby Luchana » Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:54 pm

Hi Indira,
In this moment, right now, there is no fear. Will keep this question for whenever fear arises..Will use it then.

Yes, it was quite beautiful, seeing nothing behind the fear. Today, this moment, the fear has soften..Very good question.
Lovely exploration, yes once the sensation is looked at - it softens, the good thing is that no sensation last forever.


Is there something else you would like to look at? Something in relation with the false idea of a separate self?
If there are no doubts we can end the thread here by sending you some final questions.

And this is not the end, we will continue meeting each other, exploration is ongoing..

So are you ready for those questions?


Sending you much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:04 pm

Yes, I am so ready, please ask. I also want to do clean up. Iona had mentioned that to me 2 months ago

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:10 pm

I can see there is no separate self, there never was, Only thoughts about it
Luchana, i guess this is what you may call going through the gate, there is no gate either.
Intersted in exploration, falling and Looking some more. I want to go deeper

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Luchana
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Re: ok

Postby Luchana » Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:14 am

Hi Indira,
I can see there is no separate self, there never was, Only thoughts about it
Luchana, i guess this is what you may call going through the gate, there is no gate either.
Intersted in exploration, falling and Looking some more. I want to go deeper
Great
Yes, a gate is a label, a concept like everything else basically :-)

Here are the questions bellow, spend time with each one and reply individually looking at direct experience, do not rely on memory, look fresh.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:14 am

) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience



When looking really looking in direct experience now, I see no sense of self, only thoughts that arise that claim of a sense of self, "I me, Indira. I see absolutely nothing right now, in direct experience. In the past, when looking, what i see is memories, thoughts of Indira and her life. Thoughts about how others did her wrong or she wronged others. There are only thought forms. There is no past now that i am looking, only thoughts about the past or future. Not happening in this moment. There never was. I see none

The illusion of the separate self when really looking, was only and still appears and disappears at times, was only THOUGHT..
The Separate Self was fear based, fear based thoughts about the future and past, laced with sensations of anger, lack, loneliness, misunderstandings of NO ONE. IT played its role and I became idenified with it. All of it was never true about who i am. It was protecting someone and claimed to be someone that was never really there. It started from as a little child. Watching my parents in there suffering. The minute I was called Indira, Indira and her story started and along with that, the separate self was BELIEVED. That is when the hypnotizing began. Beingness was always there, I was unable to connect, nor see it at the time. Now i can feel this subtle, quiet part of me. Now, as you you asked, how can i see it fully now? I see it in thought. There is no entity, only Thought claiming to be responcible and controlling things. Seeing this and really LOOKING, is key. I really believed for a long time that was a separate self in here. When really looking what i see is nothing, breathing is happening, the taste of sugar on the taste buds, loud sounds of outside the window, typing. This is what is real. Any thing thought is not direct experience. Thoughts label everything the body does. I see this now. There is no I doing anything, only doing happens....

The difference is that i feel more connected to direct experience. There is no more seeking. I have found what has always been here. I feel a big sense of relief. My heart feels full. Nothing around me has changed and yet i feel there is change. It is so simply radical. The biggest shift i had was inquiring the fear, shame and guilt, seeing the thoughts about the fear and then, looking to see what was behind it, which was absolutely nothing. I was able to transend months and years to just 15 minutes of looking, the side effect was this deep peace and relaxation. This has exceeded every expectation this mind imagined it would be. I can see and feel, so clearly the resistance. Guess what? I was so afraid to go down deep to that resistance and it ended up being nothing but lies, it just was NEVER true about what this is..That is the beauty about from the time i started and now. Each question, you asked and each time i answered, brought me closer to presence, silence, (Beingness). From the first time i started before, the questions, there was frustration, anger, jealouse ect. And yet, when i ask myself, who is frustrated, angry and jealous? I would have to say thoughts about becoming something or someone better..LOL! That is an illusion because what this is now, is full on liveness. It could never be any other way...There is no such thing as being better or becoming better because that would imply a someone doing it. There is no one hear doing anything and that to me is the freedom that was never expected. I feel relieved


The last bit that pushed me over and made me look was when you asked me about responsibilty. Seeing that there was no one being responcible softened the guilt and shame. And inquiring over the fear..LOOKING behind that and seeing nothing be hind the fear. Yes, that did it for me.

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:16 am

I will take a day off and answer the rest of the questions soon..Thank you Luchana.
Looking forward in answering the last bunch of questions tomorrow..

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:24 pm

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience

I will say in looking in all that is being done, there is still alot of labeling and thoughts of someone doing something. As far as examples of decisions, I cant really give examples because there is no one making decisions. Only example that can be described, is typing happening, getting out of bed happening, washing dishes, spending money for food, happening, going to work just happening, thinking happening all on its own, so no examples of decision. Everything happening spontaneously..

There is desire, intention would imply someone doing something. no examples of intention. There are thoughts about intention.

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:36 pm

Describe intention & give examples from experience

I would like to answer this question again. Was pondering on it. When really looking, there are moments of intentions, intentions arising, not for anyone. Examples of intentions would be right now, answering the questions, the arising of desire and intention of really seeing, really looking but no one is doing it. A feeling arising of honestly seeing whats here right now. Desire to meet, see realty as it is, in direct experience, but again to say I have experiences of intentions is saying someone is doing it.

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:40 pm

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

When really looking, I would say there is no free will. Direct experience is all there is...Just seeing this is freedom

I cant, give examples of choice, because there is no one here doing choice here, only sensations and happening on its own..

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Indira1
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Re: ok

Postby Indira1 » Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:46 pm

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

I cant give examples of control because there is no one here doing it, its happening all on its own

I dont really know what makes things happen, it is just happening on its own...that is the mystery

I love this question, There is no one here responsible for anyone or anything, its impossible to give examples...The thoughts would love to claim responsibilty but then again, it is just thoughts. I see no one responsible.


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