yolandags thread

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vinceschubert
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Re: yolandags thread

Postby vinceschubert » Mon May 23, 2022 11:00 pm

Good morning Ariana,
, I appreciated yesterdays zoom call
It was great to see you, and your input was excellent. It's unimaginable the value we all get from such uninhibited sharing.
he overlay of commentary (ie thought) can change how the experience lands.
This is huge. Look for an intention to arise to watch how the commentary of the mind triggers responses in your daily experiencing. (a great past time)
recognition is happening more often and more quickly.
Excellent. You are soo close.
As you put it, I’m not mentally involved with the experience. Much as I would like to be and envy others who can.
Well, firstly we don't know what others experience and our imagining can be deceptive so best leave it as a mystery. ..and secondly, being not mentally involved sound to me like the mental stuff is so prominent that the physical experiencing is in the background. Is this accurate?
This would (if accurate) suggest a fear of feeling. A fear of experiencing the sensations. Which likely suggests that the mind is putting meaning on them. What does uninhibited feeling suggest to you?

with love

vince

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yolandag
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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Mon May 23, 2022 11:53 pm

This is huge. Look for an intention to arise to watch how the commentary of the mind triggers responses in your daily experiencing. (a great past time)
. Yep. I have been doing that recently. But of course it takes me out of my body and into my head. And I do seem to be in my head a lot at the moment ‘trying’ to work it all out.
It was great to see you, and your input was excellent.
I hadn’t realised it was but thank you.

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yolandag
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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Mon May 23, 2022 11:53 pm

This is huge. Look for an intention to arise to watch how the commentary of the mind triggers responses in your daily experiencing. (a great past time)
. Yep. I have been doing that recently. But of course it takes me out of my body and into my head. And I do seem to be in my head a lot at the moment ‘trying’ to work it all out.
It was great to see you, and your input was excellent.
I hadn’t realised it was but thank you.

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yolandag
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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Tue May 24, 2022 12:09 am

being not mentally involved sound to me like the mental stuff is so prominent that the physical experiencing is in the background. Is this accurate?
Yes. That’s an interesting perspective and pretty spot on Id say.
This would (if accurate) suggest a fear of feeling. A fear of experiencing the sensations. Which likely suggests that the mind is putting meaning on them. What does uninhibited feeling suggest to you?
Wow dr vince. I teach interoceptive awareness in yoga and I never would have thought I had a fear of experiencing sensation. But in certain circumstances I guess it’s possible. Thank you for your last question. It’s late and I will look at it again tomorrow after I’ve had more time to reflect on it.
Ariana x

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Tue May 24, 2022 1:53 pm

A fear of feeling sensations. Which likely suggests that the mind is putting meaning on them. What does uninhibited feeling suggest to you?
I would say a letting go….of thought no doubt and ultimately, letting the body do what the body (which includes sound) wants to do. ‘Getting myself out of the way’ was one of the things I wrote to you when you first started guiding me.

Which could make me seem quite inhibited, which Im not generally, but possibly I am sometimes. My mother was Dutch and was brought up as a Calvinist and, although she did her best to deny her Calvinist origins, she was always suspicious of people laughing too much or seeming to be having too much fun. I can recognise, when I Iisten, that the voice in my head may have something to do with that.

Ariana x

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby vinceschubert » Tue May 24, 2022 2:12 pm

that the voice in my head may have something to do with that.
Conditioning is a reflex learned from experience. Once it is learned it becomes unconscious (subconscious).
it's a good thing that we don't need to uncover (make conscious) the details of the original conditioning to begin to change it.
We simply have to acknowledge that there is something that triggers us.
From what we learned at the last meetup, if we become aware of a contraction, we can assume that a trigger has or is about to be activated. The recognition is all that is required for it to change.
We can recondition ourselves in an accelerated way by imagining how we might to be. (Without desire) This is especially powerful if done when yoga Nidra is happening.
he was always suspicious of people laughing too much or seeming to be having too much fun
So it's quite probable that somebody who really lets go in lovemaking would have loose morals?

with love

vince

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Tue May 24, 2022 3:19 pm

We can recondition ourselves in an accelerated way by imagining how we might to be. (Without desire) This is especially powerful if done when yoga Nidra is happening.

Worth a try, although I usually fall asleep in yoga nidra (blocking out of sensations?). Maybe hypnotherapy.

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Tue May 24, 2022 4:07 pm

it's quite probable that somebody who really lets go in lovemaking would have loose morals?
Yes, that would make sense. Although that never stopped me - from having fairly loose morals, ha ha :-) - but certainly never a complete letting go.

Ariana x

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby vinceschubert » Wed May 25, 2022 12:45 am

'morning Ariana,
I usually fall asleep in yoga nidra
If you can pick the moment just before falling asleep, it is most powerful.
Yes, that would make sense. Although that never stopped me - from having fairly loose morals, ha ha :-) - but certainly never a complete letting go.
it may be an issue of mothers approval or guilt. ..but as I said, it's not necessary to find the details of the original conditioning to change the triggering. (although it can be helpful if it happens)
Maybe hypnotherapy.
Yes, if you can find a hypnotherapist whose philosophy is in line with body awareness rather than blunt force change.

Tell me, from a fresh perspective (now) why you aren't yet awake?

with love

vince

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Wed May 25, 2022 8:51 am

ell me, from a fresh perspective (now) why you aren't yet awake?
I’ve felt emotionally challenged this week. Firstly by being shown a photo of my ex husband getting married last Saturday. Memories (yes I know) of the devastation I felt when he left me 20 years ago gave rise to thoughts of my sadness whixh led to tears.
Secondly I have arthritis in my neck which causes me a lot of pain and exhaustion. I am seeing someone for it. I also am aware of pain science and the brain and she is helping me to re-educate the brains response. So there is some hope. But yesterday when it was really bad I started feeling hope-less and thought content was imagining a future in which I couldn’t play tennis. It’s not just the game but the lovely people I know through it. And again i started to feel weepy. Possibly exacerbated by the ex husband thing.

When I am going through these emotions I am only conscious of myself as a separate being from the rest of humanity.

Ariana x

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Wed May 25, 2022 9:09 am

My pain. My grief.

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Wed May 25, 2022 11:19 am

And I’m walking back from tennis now. Sensing the sensations in my head and neck as separate from the brains interpretation. Just being with this right here right now. Xx

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby vinceschubert » Wed May 25, 2022 2:33 pm

'evening Ariana,
I’m walking back from tennis now. Sensing the sensations in my head and neck as separate from the brains interpretation. Just being with this right here right now.
That's THIS. It's wonder full. ..and it's an ever-expanding THIS.
I have arthritis in my neck which causes me a lot of pain and exhaustion.
I know the pain of arthritis. i have it in both thumbs. At one point I couldn't hold a golf club properly and had to use a baseball grip. i was taking glucosamine and chondroitin which seemed to help. Well the pain became quite minimal so I stopped taking it. The pain returned within days to very severe. So I started taking it again but only days later I went to a 10 day Vipassana sit and on arriving I discovered that I had forgotten to take my pills. i suffered sever pain for the first 3 days of the retreat then the pain disappeared and hasn't returned. That was many years ago.
About a year ago I got it again but this time in the wrists. Around 5 months ago the pain disappeared from my left hand, but remained in my right. It's still there, but I meditate (self-hypnosis really) and the pain has reduced. Xrays show bone on bone but my brain can ignore the pain. Although the pain is constant, it really only gets my attention when either I think about it or I hurt it by bending it excessively.
The worst part about it is that I can't weight bear on the right wrist which means that I can't do much yoga. (really that's an excuse as I could do many poses - but don't.)
Possibly exacerbated by the ex husband thing.
If you were to write the stories generated by that experience, you might expunge them.

with love

vince

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yolandag
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Re: yolandags thread

Postby yolandag » Wed May 25, 2022 5:26 pm

I know the pain of arthritis.
Yes. It’s a bit of a bummer, this getting older thing. I was diagnosed with osteoporosis recently too which has meant changing the yoga I used to do and love, to a stronger version which has emphasis on building bone. And yes, not all yoga depends upon the wrists. But you know that as you say! I too have done a 10 day vipassana. Only once though. It’s the longest body scan ever. Do you still go or does ‘waking up’ mean there’s no need to ever go again.
“If you were to write the stories generated by that experience, you might expunge them.”
I have done kind of similar to that when I did the Landmark Forum, or on one of their seminars. Recounting the dramas of your life In a Micky mouse voice. I think I have pretty well expunged the past in more ways than one …only a few cobwebby corners left to clear out. But it was just interesting to note how the voice in my head had me triggered, despite knowing it was just a voice in my head of a memory and not direct experience.

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Re: yolandags thread

Postby vinceschubert » Thu May 26, 2022 1:43 pm

Good evening Ariana,
Do you still go or does ‘waking up’ mean there’s no need to ever go again.
Ha, I was obsessive and did many 10 day and even a 20 day course. i haven't been since waking up. i don't know about "need" or the value of going. It just hasn't happened since. The seeking urge evaporated.
I think I have pretty well expunged the past in more ways than one
I had too with a variety of methods. (gestalt, encounter groups, Psychology at Uni, became a practising hypnotherapist for 5 years) This is why (my story) that you will slide into waking up without the great epiphany (the bells and whistles) With so little left the change isn't much.

You didn't answer the question that I put to you a couple of posts ago; "Tell me, from a fresh perspective (now) why you aren't yet awake?"

with love

vince


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