Free to live fully

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:49 am

Dear Vince,
I can see what you mean about acceptance...
i don't do acceptance. i don't do not accepting, so the concept of accepting applies but it's really the absence of not accepting.
Accepting doesn't happen. Not accepting doesn't happen. These concepts apply, but in actual living, neither of them actually happen.
I can see how words are not enough to describe what happens. But I have a feel for what you are describing. Eating happens. Drinking happens. Sleeping happens. Acceptance happens. Not acceptance happens. Rain happens. Sunshine happens.

A nother thing. The other so Day someone close to me said something hurtful to me. Or I got the feeling of hurt. I was able to let I pass. And then the funny thing is, I have noticed this weekend how my brain keeps on coming back to the situation. Like it says "This isn't resolved yet" "he hurt you" "what do you want to do about it". I havn´t acted on it. Like I KNOW that Awareness can't get hurt. Yes my little brain can. But Awarness can't. Does that makes sense.

And a nice sunday to you dear Vince.

With love from Benedikte

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:12 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
The other so Day someone close to me said something hurtful to me. Or I got the feeling of hurt.
Yes, it's more accurate to say that you got the hurt feeling. It wasn't what they said that did the hurting, it was the story that you got sucked into about what it means. So it would be even more accurate to say that you hurt yourself. ..but there's neither good or bad in any of this. There's just the opportunity to see how this works.
It doesn't matter what they meant. It doesn't matter what their intent was. Their opinion is their story, and it's none of your business. Even your own opinion us just another story. Whether you agree or disagree with what they said, it's just a story. What or who does it relate to? It actually just relates to another story. The story of Benedikte.
How can a story feel hurt? Do we have to defend our story of a self?

with love

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:01 am

Dear Vince,
Thanks for your reply. This time your reply made me a little silent. There is a lot to digest in here. Thank you for that.
Their opinion is their story, and it's none of your business. Even your own opinion us just another story. Whether you agree or disagree with what they said, it's just a story. What or who does it relate to? It actually just relates to another story. The story of Benedikte.
How can a story feel hurt? Do we have to defend our story of a self?

How can a story feel hurt?! It can't. Of course it can't. And of course we don't have to defend a story of a self. That's why it doesn't feel good. It is not necessary. The human system is perfect that way. But who am I without any story? It is still tricky not to get pulled in to some stories. A story of a mother. A story of a wife and so on.

With love from Kirja

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:05 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
But who am I without any story?
Good question. Who are you with a story?
Are you more than a story?
If self is all story, what of the responses to that story?
If the subject and object are pure concept, and all that is actual is the responding, is it possible that that is what you are?
A verb. Action. Movement.
Well, it's wrong to say that that is what you are. Is it more accurate to say that all that exists is the experiencing.
It is still tricky not to get pulled in to some stories. A story of a mother. A story of a wife and so on.
Of course, but that is the experiencing when it is happening.
We move from experiencing the responding to one story line to another. That is fine. That will never not be the case. It is watched with much humor.
Noticing the pull, the suck in, removes our identification with it. Then it is amusing.
Those stories are useful. They facilitate getting things done. It's just not us doing them. It's not even us watching them happen. It's thee watching happening. It's the seeing things getting done that's happening.


with love

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:00 am

Hi Vince,

Who am I?
A verb. Action. Movement.
Well, it's wrong to say that that is what you are. Is it more accurate to say that all that exists is the experiencing.
I hear you. I am experience. I am the experiencer and the one who watches experiencing take place, I guess.
We move from experiencing the responding to one story line to another. That is fine. That will never not be the case. It is watched with much humor.
Noticing the pull, the suck in, removes our identification with it. Then it is amusing.
Yes I can see that it is very helpful to have a humorous distance to everything experienced. And this conversation, that you and I are having, are certainly helpful that way.
It's thee watching happening. It's the seeing things getting done that's happening.
I get that and then I don't. I would say that we are awareness watching the "Life-show". Is that not the case?

With love from Benedikte

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:08 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
I am the experiencer and the one who watches experiencing take place, I guess.
Are you forgetting what you saw with the cup exercise? That the moment you activate thought to be the experiencer, that you stop experiencing. (or rather that you change experiencing to experience the concept of a self (experiencer)
I would say that we are awareness watching the "Life-show". Is that not the case?
No. We are the "life-show".
When we are watching it, then the watching is the life-show.

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:57 am

Dear Vince.
I din´t write anything yesterday because I was very ill with diarrhea. My brain went nuts with scary scenarios. Sometimes I could see it. Sometimes I was totally in the story.

I write something about the cup exercise. I haven't done any exercise with a cup. Please tell me more about this.
We are the "life-show".
When we are watching it, then the watching is the life-show.
WE are the lifeshow. YES. And the watching of it is also the lifeshow. Love that. I will bring it along with me today when I try to recovery from the ill-ness.

With love from Benedikte

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:23 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
Sometimes I could see it. Sometimes I was totally in the story.
It's excellent that sometimes you could see it. ..and the fact that you can see that sometimes you were totally in it, is also seeing it. (even if it is after the event)
I haven't done any exercise with a cup.
oops! My mistake. Here it is:
Take a cup and place it in front of you.
Start looking at it and notice thoughts labelling what you see.
Consider the process of looking.
Consider the process of seeing.
Watch thoughts as you consider who is seeing. Notice what happens to seeing as you consider a this. Did the seeing stop?
Go back to simply watching thoughts as you look at the cup.
After a while of watching thoughts, they will get bored and slow down. Now look for spaces between thoughts.
Focus on seeing in the spaces. They may be milliseconds, but notice them.
There will be no labelling. ..and anyway, the colours, the textures, the shapes, etc will be too subtle, too complex to be accurately described.
As this seeing is happening, ask yourself can there be a seer or a seen without the seeing stopping.
Is there only seeing?
When you finish seeing, do you then see the cup as a story. A cup that has uses and takes up space, and need washing after use?
..but we aren't actually seeing it anymore. We look at it but recognize a vessel to contain something. The details have vanished leaving an impression.

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:02 am

Dear Vince,

Thank you for you kind reply.
It's excellent that sometimes you could see it. ..and the fact that you can see that sometimes you were totally in it, is also seeing it. (even if it is after the event)
Yes!!!

I will do the cup exercise. I tried this morning but I need more time to do it. My mind was all over the place. It is the month of December and I think I have (or my brain does) a million things to think about. I will return when I have done the exercise. Thank you so much.

With love from Benedikte.

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:56 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
I will do the cup exercise. I tried this morning but I need more time to do it.
Take all of the time that you need.
Do it as many times as you need to see that once seeing is established without thought, there is only seeing. ..and that has to be interrupted to create who/what is seeing or what is being seen. ..and that their creation is pure thought.

with much love

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:57 am

Dear Vince,
Happy sunday!

I have tried the cup exercise several times. And it is like I get - and I don´t get it. But this is my experience.

I can see that my brain starts telling stories about the cup. The shape of the cup, what to drink in the cup, who gave me the cup and so on. And after a while my brain got bored, like you mentioned it would Vince. It was like the seeing rested on the cup. I noticed the lille breaks from thoughts and all the stories.

But I got a little lost in who did the seeing. It still felt like a "me".
Any thoughts on this?

With love from Benedikte

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:23 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
But I got a little lost in who did the seeing. It still felt like a "me".
Yeah, it takes a bit to see what I'm pointing at here.
In those breaks between thoughts when attention is absorbed in the texture and the color and the subtle details of the material that the cup is made of, there is just seeing. Pure seeing. It is a verb. It is pure, direct experiencing via the visual sensory organ.
The thoughts about this thing called a cup aren't there. The thoughts about who/what is seeing aren't there.
There is no body seeing. There is nothing being seen. It takes thought for them to come into existence.
There is only seeing happening. Not looking. That takes someone to be doing it. So looking also requires thought. ..but seeing doesn't. It is direct experiencing.
Do the exercise in a relaxed manner and see if what I say is accurate.

with love

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:58 am

Dear Vince,

Yesterday I tried the excercise with the cup again - in a more relaxed state of mind. I took the time. And I saw in little tiny glimpses, that there was only SEING between the thoughts. It was like SEING nothing - and at the same time SEIUNG colors and shapes - but it was not a cup I saw. It was like SEING energy. Or SEING noting. I don't know if this makes sense at all. The SEING was calm and with no agenda.

And then thoughts came back. My brain came in and asked "Okay now there has been SEING - but how does that keep you safe in the future?". Silly brain that try so hard to keep me safe.

With love from Benedikte

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vinceschubert
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby vinceschubert » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:33 pm

Good evening Benedikte,
I don't know if this makes sense at all. The SEING was calm and with no agenda.
Yes, perfect sense.
The point of the exercise is to show you what you really are. That you are not a thing. Neither a see-er or a seen. You are the movement of seeing, or hearing. You are experiencing. Not the experiencer or the experienced.
You can see how thoughts rush in at the slightest opportunity to direct this experiencing. ..but the mind is a tyrant. It wants experiencing to be according to historical rules. Rules that have been conditioned in. It wants to maintain the status quo.
Silly brain that try so hard to keep me safe.
Yes. It imagines safety in the familiar, or (probably) more accurately it imagines danger in the unfamiliar.
Luckily, it doesn't take long for new behavior to become familiar and then the brain (mind) will put every effort into maintaining that as a new normal. You are already seeing some of this happening.
I know that language has evolved in such a way that there are no words for a lot of what we are now experiencing, but i want you to give me a few sentences about your world from the perspective of you being experiencing. (when i say "you are...", that is onky language. There is no "you" and there is no "are". There is just happening.)

great love

vince

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Benedikte
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Re: Free to live fully

Postby Benedikte » Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:20 am

Dear Vince,

Thanks for your question.
I know that language has evolved in such a way that there are no words for a lot of what we are now experiencing, but i want you to give me a few sentences about your world from the perspective of you being experiencing. (when i say "you are...", that is onky language. There is no "you" and there is no "are". There is just happening.)
I had to feel in to this question. Not think too much. And as you wrote, it is so hard to find the right words to describe "being experiencing"...But here is how I see it...

Experiencing is happening during the Day and Night. Like a bird that knows where to fly. Experiencing as the person named Benedikte is happening. Thinking, eating, walking, typing an e-mail like this, calling a friend, thoughts about work happening. Experiencing takes place all the time. Experiencing how it is to be a human being. No control. Just Life living Benedikte. I am not the experiencer and I am not the experienced, experiencing is happening. When there is NO thoughts Benedikte still does A LOT of things during af day with out any thinking. Just experiencing.

That is the best I can do to describe how it feels. With love from Benedikte


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