What am i?

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Jared
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What am i?

Postby Jared » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:12 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The concept is familiar to me from Buddhism. Separate self not actually exists. It is just an illusion created by thinking.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance to see who or what I really am. I think I understand intellectually what this is all about, but that too is just an idea. I just want to see the truth. I feel stuck and looking for support to see.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have no expectations. I just want to see the truth. However, I hope that through the debate I will be better able to question myself. I have tried on my own to see the reality, but I will probably not be able to do it alone.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have read countless books on the subject(zen, advaita vedanta etc.). I have also practiced zazen randomly.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

Bananafish
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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:03 am

Hi Jared. :) My name is Kento, a guide here in LU and also a long-time zazen practitioner.
It seems we have something in common, as we both have zen background. Let me help you.

If you are ready, let's start by your telling what your present, experiential understanding of
who (what) you really are.

Warm regards,

Kento

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:16 am

Hello,

Nice to meet you Kento. I am grateful to receive your help🙂
English is not my native language, so can we keep the conversation as simple as possible?

I think I'm ready, so let's start.
If you are ready, let's start by your telling what your present, experiential understanding of
who (what) you really are.
I think I have some understanding of the concept of no self. The word "I" does not in itself refer to anything real. It’s just an idea among other thoughts.

My challenge in this matter, however, is to identify strongly with my physical body because looking at the world takes place through it.

Jared

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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:24 am

Hi Jared, thanks for the reply!
Sure, simple conversation is my specialty. :)


looking at the world takes place through it.


Please observe your "looking at the world" in the present moment, and describe the process of this.

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:45 pm

Hi,
Please observe your "looking at the world" in the present moment, and describe the process of this.
I went for a walk and sat on the cliff to get a fresh perspective on this.

When I leave out thinking, the experience as a whole is a pure flow of sensory perceptions from moment to moment. The only thing that is unchanging is the perspective of experience. My body seems to be the center of everything. This is, in its simplest form, my experience of myself.

Jared

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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:47 pm

Thanks Jared. :)


My body seems to be the center of everything


We want to move from "seems" to clarity.
Tell me what the word "seems" suggests here. Is it a certain feeling?
Or is it more like an idea or a belief?

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:14 pm

Hi,


You are very quick to reply🙂
We want to move from "seems" to clarity.
Tell me what the word "seems" suggests here. Is it a certain feeling?
Or is it more like an idea or a belief?
I'm not entirely sure about that. Maybe it's more like a feeling. I have tried to question this notion, but it is pretty damn convincing. Honestly, it seems to me that even questioning this is madness in itself.

Jared

Bananafish
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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:29 pm

Hi Jared. :) The last part of you previous answer (questioning this is madness) seems to be an idea of
yours, and we don't use ideas here for inquiry.


I'd like you to plainly observe that "body" as a center of everything.


What makes it a center? Is it a feeling that makes it a center?


Regards,

Kento

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:02 pm

Hi Kento,
Hi Jared. :) The last part of you previous answer (questioning this is madness) seems to be an idea of
yours, and we don't use ideas here for inquiry
This is ok for me ... no silly ideas anymore :)
I'd like you to plainly observe that "body" as a center of everything.

What makes it a center? Is it a feeling that makes it a center?
All experiences become known through the body. Without the body, I cannot hear, smell, taste, see, touch, or become aware of my mind. From this perspective, it is the center of everything. I know ... this is just an idea, but it refers quite directly to the experience I have from present moment.

However, I am ready to question this and I am also open to see things from a new direction.

Jared

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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 am

Hi Jared. :)

Please describe how the seeing of this
reply is done through the body.

Remember to refer only to the direct experience
of here and now, without using any logic or interpretation
of the raw experience.

Plainly report it.

Thanks,

Kento

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:15 pm

Hi Kento!

Please describe how the seeing of this
reply is done through the body.

Remember to refer only to the direct experience
of here and now, without using any logic or interpretation
of the raw experience.
I don’t know if I can answer this without logic and interpretation. But I try my best.

With my eyes open I can see the text on the screen. Without interpretation, there is only a field of view where variation in light and color occurs. If I close my eyes, everything disappears. Conclusion: Seeing happens through my body.

However, something is bothering me in this conclusion. I have a feeling that something essential is missing in my conclusion. Thanks for the good question. I need to go deeper into this.

Jared

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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:27 pm

Hi Jared!
Conclusion is logic, isn't it?

Please try it again without logic. Please "go deeper into this."
Please keep asking and be the question itself.


Best wishes,

Kento

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:22 pm

Hi again!
Conclusion is logic, isn't it?
Yes it is.... sorry for that.
Please try it again without logic. Please "go deeper into this."
Please keep asking and be the question itself.
It seems that this is an impossible question to answer without logic. Now I'm a pretty deep waters with this one. Would you help please?

Jared

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Jared
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Re: What am i?

Postby Jared » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:35 am

Hi Kento,

Yoo-hoo... are you still here? :)

Jared

Bananafish
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Re: What am i?

Postby Bananafish » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:55 pm

Hi Jared, sorry for the late reply.

What is it that is reading this, and from where is it reading?

Kento


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