1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?

That which I call "I" is purely a mental fabrication, created with an abstract labeling process which itself is not found in direct experience.



1.5) When you say "I", what in ...

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self / controler / doer / agent ?

What I see is that there is something I could be tempted to call "I", "me", "myself" which I would add is some type of agent that makes decisions and has self-awareness. But I see now that all of that labeling is ...

Hey At1,

alright. good.

look at the inseparability, at experiencing, at consciousness. seer and seen are inseparable, and One.

are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

has there been a shift in perception?

is there anything more that you would like to ...

Hey At1,

okay, so...

is there is a separate self, anywhere, in any form, was there ever?
There is no self separate from reality.

-in Experiencing, in Life, is there any separation at all?
There is no separation in experiencing.

do you see that the first person character is NOT "I" / self ...

The character At1 is just another element of the appearance of experiencing.

When the body moves, that is just another element of the appearance of experiencing.

Experiencing does not come from the body, the body is just another appearance in experiencing.

The "mind/body" is still an appearance ...

It's beginning to make sense.

A lot of what goes on in the brain in this body is a thought-story superimposed over raw Experiencing. Like the idea of a chooser that is choosing thoughts. The chooser is a construct I cling to but in my awareness, I am focusing on not identifying "me" as a collection ...

I appreciate your point of view and want to see but it certainly feels like there is something that chooses, for example, a chess move. Is that not the direct experience of something?

Or maybe that is indirect experiencing?

Thanks, cosmiK.

I like how you spelled that out especially with the blue frog example.

Yet, again, sticking nakedly to direct experiencing, we can see that this choice or control is an illusion.

How do we know it's an illusion?

Yes, that is because you are looking in direct experience and not relying on thought-stories, ideas, theories (which tell you that there IS a black box, and describe what is going on in there). In direct experience it is plain and simple, there is just Life, and thoughts that arise in and as it ...

There is an Experiencing, or Life, or whatever, and then there are thoughts about it which are abstractions that point to other abstractions, or to that movement of Life. The assumption of a separate something is what we are challenging here. The assumption of a chooser, doer, and agent is also ...

I don't identify myself as my thoughts.

It could be that there is nothing that is deciding to think what I think when I want to change what I think. Seems a little queer that there are decisions about what to think without a decider, though. It reminds me of Searle's Chinese Room. There is like a ...

Hey At1,

great.

so look at "decisions" and everything else that isn't labelled "decisions". Is it ever more than an abstraction over Experiencing, or over Life?

I suppose labels are abstractions yet I am thinking that sometimes something that has a label doesn't necessarily not exist.

the ...

What is it that you are seeing that is deciding? Can you describe it from direct experience?

I can't see the decider; I only see the decisions. Just like I can't see the wind, I only see the blowing leaves.

The thought chooser isn't located in one particular place.

I see that something is deciding. Am I seeing something that isn't there?

It's like a river approaching a fork. Something decides left path or right path, though in that case the choice is not actually made by a conscious person , it is made by the initial conditions and the laws of physics.

In ...

Hey At1,

When I am on autopilot, yes.
What about when there is no autopilot... can you explain how there is a choice, or decision? who/what in direct experience makes it? Explain this clearly from direct experiencing.

The first thing that comes to mind is the activity of playing chess. There ...