Guide to check please

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awakey
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Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Thu May 01, 2014 11:21 pm

Hello,
Late last year I had an experience in meditation which was very powerful and unforgettable. My physical body fell away, there was no woman sitting there, or man for that matter. All there was, was timeless wisdom, and that was it. Simple.
Recommended LU by a friend, over the past couple of months I have been reading the Gateless Gatecrashers and really 'looking'. Life certainly seems simpler. I had felt for a good while, before hearing about LU, that liberation was just a simple head turn away, but didn't know how or why...
I would really like someone to guide me through and see where I am with all this...
With many thanks indeed for all this wonderful work

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ElPortal
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby ElPortal » Fri May 02, 2014 8:12 am

Hi there,

At your service....

Where are you at?
And what are your expectations?

Cheers

Mark

ps a name would be nice!
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Fri May 02, 2014 8:43 am

Hi Mark, brilliant. Just rushing out of door, will write later. Thanks so much look forward to speaking soon.
Sophie

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Fri May 02, 2014 7:09 pm

Hi Mark,

Hope you are well.
Thank you so much for answering my request. It’s very much appreciated.

I have just spent more than 3hrs writing a great big long email all about the "story" of how I got to now... But have decided its all pretty irrelevant, too baggage-y, so instead here is a poem I wrote a few days ago.
It’s unfinished...but it's pretty much where I am now...

I’m no poet, but here it is anyway:

Thoughts create a special me,
An angry, anxious, fearful me,
A joyful and triumphant me,
A spiritual illusion-ry.
An Enlightened me, cannot be.
A created identity,
A fabricated story, a structure full of glory.
Obsessions, thoughts and habits,
Want it, fix it, grab it.
Liberation from illusion,
Self protection, confusion,
Myself and I collusion.
No need for resistance
To a dreamt-up co-existence,
Just some simple seeing
Sees this body is just being
A walking, talking, living, feeling, sensing, organism.
This is real, feet on ground, not abstract nihilism.
This vehicle has no driver,
No manager to behold,
Life is living by itself,
Nature will unfold.
Naked and authentic...

....to be continued and finished!

So as I mentioned before, 6 months ago I had an experience in meditation, which was very powerful. My physical body fell away, there was no woman sitting there, or man for that matter. All there was, was timeless wisdom. This was the start of seeing something that I couldn’t put into words. Beauty, simplicity, intimacy.

I felt that some kind of freedom was very close. Kept trying to explain it to people, and getting blank faces. I had small insights here and there in mediation - grew a little closer to it - conversations with friends who are Buddhist practitioners gave me more insight, but I felt there was something more

So, 4 weeks ago I read the first few dialogues in the Gateless Gatecrashers and did some looking. Something shifted. It was as if those few months, since the meditation experience,of feelings, experiences and insights were being articulated as best they possibly could. A few phrases resonated with me particularly, such as “there is no manager”, “there is no driver”, “this body is a living organism”, “life is just living”

I looked and looked and saw that my body was, yes a living organism, a collective of senses, feelings and thought. Thoughts, which had taken years to create this spectacular identity!!! …A woman labeled Sophie, an illustrator, good clients, lots of nice clothes (cladding the organism, ha) and lots of stuff bought from shops to support this identity…shame has arisen!

At first I kept looking for the ‘shifting’ experience again and again, wanting to relive it. Had lots of questions and dialogue going on. Kept repeating, there is no manager, no driver, and looking for the feeling that went with it which was fading in and out.

Over the last 4 weeks I have finally taken a break from my work as an illustrator, feeling that my work for the past 18 years has not felt authentic. Cladding again. I was riding on skills learned. Winging it. There had been a calling to work from the heart for the past year and a half, getting stronger and stronger and more urgent, and finally this big creative surge has arisen!…this is the most exciting part of the last 4 weeks, and feels like it is tied in to the liberation bit…the reading and the looking etc

So right now, I am a body, typing, there's hunger, bird sounds, dinner smells. Thoughts are there, but they are not me, and I dont feel I am the identity I spent so long and so much money creating, and searching for. But there is also a thought of, this cant be happening to me, then laughter. There is lightness. Simplicity. Ease. Sometimes sharp comments from my husband sink into an enormous absorbant hole... other times, they ping off, like a dried pea from a drum skin...and 'I' feel the need to retaliate

Re my expectations, I have none really…trying to look for some, but there aren’t any. There are feelings of slight anxiety and self consciousness as I write!! Thats interesting…
Ok that’s it for now, hope its enough to be going on with...
With very best wishes
Sophie

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ElPortal
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby ElPortal » Fri May 02, 2014 8:03 pm

Hi Sophie,

So beautifully put: it ALL resonates!!

The slight anxiety and self-consciousness are normal. Just let them be there, as your friends.

The biggest obstacle to kicking that 'k' out of seeking, (think about it!), can be the notion, often received from gooey teachers sitting with a vase of flowers at their side, that life will now be wall-to-wall magic-carpet-like joy and peace, or that 'something' will happen. Sort of like Life in Business Class. There the cutlery will somehow be better, and no one will ever fart... that what is here RIGHT NOW is somehow not enough. Total rubbish, of course, and it sounds from what you write that you have seen through the heist.

So what I would like to ask you now is: what comes up when it is read that there is no “you” at all in reality, not in any shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be? There is only life moving freely, without any general manager called "you".

Tell me what comes up: the now experiences and sensations. Just be honest and open.

A couple of 'formalities': in our conversations will you please agree to the following:

1. Post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!" If you can't for some reason, just let me know.
2. I am not your teacher; all I can do is point. You look, until clear seeing happens.
3. Look deeply and honestly, then respond with 100% honesty. There are no wrong or right answers.
4. Respond from immediate personal experience only (felt senses and observed thoughts). Avoid long-winded analytical and philosophical and stream-of-consciousness answers which may even hinder progress.
5. Please put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
6. It's a good idea to learn to use the quote function; this is invaluable in referring to things that have been written in previous posts. See these instructions:- viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too - http://www.liberationunleashed.com Please take a look at that.

If you could confirm you have seen all the above, agree to them, and would still like me to be your guide - then we can continue.

Also, it would be handy to know which time zone you are in. I am in France: Central European Time (= GMT+1).

Love,

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Sat May 03, 2014 10:41 am

Hi Mark,

Yes I can confirm I agree with the formalities and would like to continue with you as my guide. Thank you. I am BST British Summer time.

What comes up when I read there is no me in reality in any way shape or form - a smile, eyes close, warm inward glow toward something very uncomplicated, release. There is no "me" or "I" there at all in reality. I visualise a vast bundled ball of rubber bands, each one a thought, a belief, an assumption, a feeling, an emotion all with stories attached, built up over years. A collection of all sorts with a label of I, but nothing solid, real. There is a real body of course, made up of the earths elements. It moves with instinct, and it wants to do its best to survive. All the thoughts and feeling etc are real too, they are there, but they do not equate to a separate "I"
There is some sadness here. I have spent years, all my adult life, hunting, looking and searching. Usually trying to find something to buy/have, to support this wavering identity, to make it permanent and fixed - to clad it on the outside with career, clothes etc...This is me! there is laughing now tinged with sadness and relief... Seems desperate now, but feelings of kindness go to that searching girl/woman of the past

Must go now, but look forward to speaking again soon
With love
Sophie




I tried saying

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ElPortal
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby ElPortal » Sat May 03, 2014 2:04 pm

Hi Sophie,

Again, lovely to read! It is looking as though seeing through the illusion is already happening. But let's be thorough. As much as anything, this can check out residual conditionings.

Yes, go with those emotions: just let them be there. There will be plenty more, and there is nothing wrong with any of what comes up in this ride.
There is a real body of course, made up of the earths elements.
Many quantum and nuclear physicists would go even further and question whether there is any real body, any actual particles, anything more than vibrations and probabilities, but hey.... I understand what you are saying.

Is that body Sophie, though, or is it just a body? How is that felt?

Similarly with thoughts, beliefs etc, are those Sophie's, or are they just thoughts beliefs etc? How does that feel?

Then an exercise I would like you to do please. Let's see whether we can find a Sophie the controller, intender, chooser of anything. 2 parts:

1. Please make a choice between two or three things, eg drinks, or clothes to wear. Then look carefully at how that decision-making process seemed to go. Sit for a while and see if you can find 'the self' who made that choice? If so, where exactly did that choice happen? Try to describe the process of 'choosing'. Let me know what you find.

2. Think of something that you seemed to intend to do over the last day (and then did). Again, try to describe the process, and then tell me whether any real 'you' was needed for that intending, that managing.

Warm wishes

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Sat May 03, 2014 10:38 pm

Hi Mark,

Thanks so much for your further thoughts and questioning...once again it is really appreciated.

Just quickly to answer your first question, as the other exercises will need some time and good looking.

No this body is not Sophie...(laughs). If anything I feel weirdly (but pleasantly) disassociated with that label. I used to love it and felt it was really me! Now I don't even feel like a man or a woman!!!!!...I know that might sound completely bonkers, and I have worried about this quite a lot over the past few months, but keep looking and seeing neither...more recently I feel that perhaps it was my conditioned mind that made me feel like a woman, and now it doesn't seem to matter..this body is a functioning womans body with a label of Sophie. The collective under the label seems to work very well for everyday purposes...
Despite feeling disassociated with the name Sophie, there is an intense beauty in the intimacy of awareness of this body and its feelings, sensings and emotings..a far cry from disassociation...simplicity and joy

Really tired now, so prob rambling, will continue tomo
Sophie

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Sun May 04, 2014 7:21 am

Ok so I intend to email a guy in a gallery with the thought of showing my work.

Feeling of intention is present
Feeling of excitement
Flash in my mind, or somewhere, not sure, of a fabricated image of my work in his gallery
Tingly excitement arising in response to the fabricated image
Doubt arising
Flash of image, his card in my handbag
I am lying in bed, so thought comes, where is my handbag hmm
Flash of image of it in the hall, kitchen - small side thought of mess and tidying
A pull of intention
With that pull, instinct gets me to my feet without thought or manager
Go to bag, instinctive movement, stroke and kiss dog, instinctive movement
Get card out, and looking...all this is just happening
There is a combo of instinct and flashes of imagery which is fabricated and thoughts on top.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Sun May 04, 2014 7:22 am

Whoops submitted without finishing...haven't emailed the guy yet, so will do so and report back...

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ElPortal
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby ElPortal » Sun May 04, 2014 7:44 am

...hehe, yes, and don't forget to answer all parts of the instruction/all questions on each experiment/exercise.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Sun May 04, 2014 9:45 am

Yes, so to continue with this exercise...

Sitting here looking at the email page ready to write to this guy at gallery.
Sinking feeling with flash of fabricated image of long email to him showing paintings all beautifully prepared, which they are not - story arising, inadequacy arising, awareness of story.
Thought: this is gonna take longer than I think blah blah
Feeling: disappointment
Thought: Can't do it now while I'm doing this (LU)
Feeling: Overwhelment
Feeling: humiliation
Thought: story coming in of rushing into things, awareness of story.
Feeling: distancing from the email and its big connotations.
Image flash: the email fading into darkness.
Thought: can deal with it later.
General feeling and thought of do it later, combined with inadequacy and humiliation, excitement, awareness of it all being a story is all swirling round.
Moving on. Simple again
All seems to have rounded off ok...despite the circulating stories, feelings and thoughts lurking with their various intensities. Good feelings are arising from the awareness
Chuckle

So all ‘that' went on with no Sophie, no manager, no controller
All in all the process of doing something, an intended action, was a combo of desire, instinctive energetic pull, instinctive movement, thought, story, feeling, awareness, but there was no me doing it, it just did!

Next question on thoughts and beliefs:
Thoughts: passing by, they are not mine. I notice especially when lying quietly or meditating. A body breathing, thoughts passing by - stories attaching - back to awareness of breath, wonderfully intimate and beautiful to notice - freeing
Beliefs: Belief feels more intrenched in long term habits and thoughts coagulated together to make something fixed. I have a belief! I believe this or that! Beliefs attempt to make a ‘me’ with fixed ideas...

Having trouble thinking with 6yr old singing at top volume, will look at other excercise (1) later
Many thanks
Sophie

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Mon May 05, 2014 7:08 am

Hi Mark,

So I have attempted excercise 1, making a choice (of tea)

Here's a list of my findings:

Thirst - thoughts about the excercise - instinct and habit took me into the kitchen and opening cupboard door- looking at the teas - 3 teas were chosen to choose 1 from - they were chosen by a quick instinctive pull, not detailed, but habit and memory that knows these are good for the body, and have been enjoyed on many previous occasions in various ways - looking at one in particlar - there was a pull to it from somewhere around the top of my chest/heart area - memory of delightful tea drinking and various connotations felt in body - hand went out to take it from cupboard.

Tried to say that "I am choosing it" but came up with a blank, then a smile.

There was no single 'I' making that choice. No single controller. There was a combo of different functions involved in choosing a tea.

Looking (this seems to be generic word for a whole process which I can't begin to understand)
Aesthetic appeal (secondary in the choosing process but there nonetheless)
Instinctive pull (coming from the body somewhere)
Memory and habit

Hope this isn't too rambled
With very best wishes and look forward to speaking soon
Sophie

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ElPortal
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby ElPortal » Mon May 05, 2014 10:50 am

Hi Sophie,

Thanks very much for the various instalments of responses there!

Once seeing happens, literally ANYTHING can happen. It can be like a row of dominoes falling over. It can be gentle, violent, phases of each etc. Often there are bits of conditioning that can take time - even a lifetime - to topple, but it's a crazy ride. LU has various support groups where, once seeing has happened, experiences can be shared, and support can be had.

First, though, here are our summing up questions. Please take your time with them (you can respond in instalments again if you prefer) and just answer honestly and as fully as you can, from your present experience (i.e. practice rather than theory):-

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
 
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now. 
 
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
 
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? 
 
5) Please have a stab at describing how deciding, intending, choosing and controlling events in Life happens? Do you make anything happen? Please try to describe the process as best you can, even if gropingly. Don't forget to give some practical examples from your everyday experience (even if there is no real 'you'!)

6) Anything to add?

Once all your responses are in, there may be further queries, and I will have some other guides look over them too and see if they have any questions.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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awakey
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Re: Guide to check please

Postby awakey » Mon May 05, 2014 11:15 am

Great. Will look at these today and tomorrow and try to be as honest and as thorough as possible... Thanks again


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