I tried on my own. I am exhausted

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Lourdes
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I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:37 pm

I have been around for 60 years now.
Since I can remember most of them believing I have been cheated... but all the same I've tried my best to be the following:
A good person
A hard worker
One who tries her best
Inside I've considered this person (me) to be a flaw, always in need of the final reference that made everything finally clear for me.
And very often ashamed of myself, of not doing better, being better, more efficient, more constructive, more powerful... ashamed of being a girl, a woman...

A few years ago and after trying for over 10 years with therapy, I started being interested in "awakening". Something like if this is not IT if this is not the true life reference... the way to live a "real" live, then I do not have any more moves, so to speak.

I cannot say how many good intentions to meditate (have not been very lucky with this - nor constant at all)
I cannot say how many "teachers" like Paramhansa Yogananda, Alice Bailey, Papaji, Tolle, Course in Miracles, Adyashanti, Mooji, Sadhguru Vasudev, Nissargadatta Maharaj, yongey mingiur rinpoche, Chopra, well I do not think I can list them all.... well I was saying I do not know how many teachers I have tried to absorb, through texts or videos... To "my knowledge" always obedient and opened to see what they were pointing at.

And here I am, feeling as hopeless as ever, totally "dominated" by thoughts of inadequacy and for the past 3 months hardly being able to work for a living and consuming my small savings... trying to be fair to myself, to know who am I, what to do everyday, how to get release from this anxious living way.

Well, eventhough this person "me" has always tried to solve problems on her own, trying to be the solution and not the problem, well, I need help.

I will be very grateful if any awakened one in Liberation Unleashed can help me.

For now I am reading The Gateless Gate.

Thank you beforehand

Love

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:20 pm

Hello Again
It is not the Gateless Gate I am reading but Gateless_Gatecrashers... this mind of mine(?) played a trick... I do not even know of any book called Gateless Gate... that I can remember.
Sorry
Love
Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:36 pm

Hello Lourdes,


My name is Brigitte and my role is to guide you through this process. Here are a few things that we need to make clear before the journey begins. It’s a bit long but helpful nonetheless.

Which time zone are you in? - I’m in East Sussex in England.

There are also a few standard ground rules before we start:

You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 110% honesty.

Responses require a simple, uncontrived, honest looking approach. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read this article: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. It's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.

Please learn to use the quote function, as explained in the heading section of the Guiding area.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer, and that you'd like me to be your guide and then we'll begin.

What are your expectations for this process?

How will you know that you found it?

How will this change you?

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Warm wishes
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:06 pm

Hello Brigitte
Thank you very much for offering to help.
While I read your post carefully later this evening, this quick note to tell you that I am in Spain, one hour difference with GB.
Posting once a day seems fair and easy...
"I" think "I" understand the difference between a teacher and your presence in this process... and look forward to your pointing.
In total agreement with the honesty you require... we will see together how tricky this mind here can be.
Great thing not to judge the answers whichever they are!!

The first thing I am going to do is to read the article you indicate. I will start from there and follow the rest of your proposals. Will come back to you with whatever appears.

I look forward to this work together.

Again thank you.

Big hug
Lourdes

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:40 pm

Hello Brigitte
Following up on previous post and before proceeding further, I reassure you that I have re-read the disclaimer with which I agree and that I've looked again at the video at the home page.

Now for your questions:
What are your expectations for this process?
My expectations are many and also a simple one. The many have to do with all the despairs and unresolved questions, the comes and goes about life that have arisen in me always… the inadequacy heartfelt itchy thing… something like they'd better resolve instead of stick. They are entangled with the story of Lourdes I guess. The simple one is the need for total clarity.
How will you know that you found it?
I do not know now and dare not guess or define. How could "I"?
How will this change you?
May be this one will not experience deceit-anger-sadness as often… , maybe I have more certainty on what to do, were to go, how can this I-not-I know or anticipate? Knowing before hand is guessing… isn't it?

We will see.

Thank you Brigitte.

Warm hug

Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:26 am

Good morning,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, Lourdes.

I see you have a few expectations and a need for clarity which I quite understand. This journey however will not guarantee to meet any expectations or bring clarity. The results may surprise you though. The purpose of this process is to look at what is here in experience right now, (as that is all we ever have at our disposal), in order to see that there is no separate ‘I’.

What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be? Describe in some detail what thoughts and feelings arise for you? Do you experience any resistance to this statement? If so, can you explain why?

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? For example, when you watch tv or go for a walk ? Can you find an ‘I’?

Sending love
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:41 pm

Hello Brigitte
Here I go
What comes up when it is read that there is absolutely no “you” in any way, shape or form, there never has been a “you”, nor is there or will be there ever be? Describe in some detail what thoughts and feelings arise for you?
Well, very easy, I feel cheated for since being a kid I have been searching for a something wrapping Lourdes as an entity, and trying to "make it perfect"… never found it but being convinced there was one, only I was not seeing it and therefore was fawlty. Using the I as a reference though not clear what I was refering to. Now I hear and read that there is not a "me", this keeps me puzzled. Even a few months ago when in looking deeply to find a self, I saw that when I said "I" only awareness could be found as a final expression, I could not believe it. I came back to the "normal operating system" of "I" as central point of everything happening.
Do you experience any resistance to this statement? If so, can you explain why?
— Yes very much so… I experience resistance… something like, yes, alright, it seems there is no "I", but there must be an "I" here… like it is impossible that there isn't!! Fear and confusion appear.
— Ever since I can remember… everybody adresses me as if I am (a person, an entity), therefore if I am not (the person, the entity)… I am wrong.
In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? For example, when you watch tv or go for a walk ? Can you find an ‘I’?
Well, in retrospect I would say yes. But as my hands are typing the answer profound doubt appears. In looking there does not appear any. At the same time it feels impossible, the mind says "because it cannot be found it does not mean there isn't any", you should be ashamed of yourself for not finding it.

I am giving you the shortest answers I can. Something inside tells me that I could be writing no end.

Love
Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi Lourdes,
Lourdes says
I feel cheated for since being a kid I have been searching for a something wrapping Lourdes as an entity, and trying to "make it perfect"… never found it but being convinced there was one, only I was not seeing it and therefore was fawlty. Using the I as a reference though not clear what I was refering to.
“I feel cheated”, “trying it to make it perfect”, “therefore I was fawlty”.

These are all contents of thoughts - just thought stories about Lourdes.
Lourdes says
Now I hear and read that there is not a "me", this keeps me puzzled. Even a few months ago when in looking deeply to find a self, I saw that when I said "I" only awareness could be found as a final expression, I could not believe it. I came back to the "normal operating system" of "I" as central point of everything happening.
Good. You saw that when you looked for “I”, only awareness could be found. If only awareness was found then awareness clearly exists! The proof is in the seeing. In LU we don’t tend to speak of awareness - to be more precise, it is experiencing. Is there an “I” experiencing anything or is there just looking, walking, smelling, hearing, thinking, being, going on?

Lourdes says
“but there must be an "I" here… like it is impossible that there isn't!!”
Who/what says it is impossible?
In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? For example, when you watch tv or go for a walk ? Can you find an ‘I’?
Well, in retrospect I would say yes. But as my hands are typing the answer profound doubt appears. In looking there does not appear any. At the same time it feels impossible, the mind says "because it cannot be found it does not mean there isn't any", you should be ashamed of yourself for not finding it.
Do you see that when you look in direct experience, there is no “I” typing. Only thoughts appear saying that it is impossible and that you should be ashamed. Can thoughts know anything about direct experience?

Look at my questions and see what comes up?

Brigitte x

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:19 pm

Hello Brigitte
Look at my questions and see what comes up?

Profound sadness. Sitting in front of the computer, crying, typing, staring at the screen, crying, want to get up, do something different, more tears, pickup a tissue, take a cigarret, look at the screen, rereading your post, can't understand, crying, sipping coffee,

Thoughts know nothing.

"I" is nowhere, there is only sadness.

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:13 pm

Sorry to hear you are feeling this profound sadness, Lourdes. Do you want to share with me what this sadness is pointing to? When you have a moment, please answer my previous questions. This will help me to guide you to see through the illusion of the separate "I" and to see through this sadness.

Thanks
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Looking into it, sadness is saying: look here, look now… if you do not control yourself you'll be in trouble. Behave yourself do not make a fuss. Stay put, if you don't you'll be smashed.

Yes, yes, thoughts. I'd say imprints, deeply felt, installed here. Must control, cannot let go.

When you have a moment, please answer my previous questions.
Ok I am going to reread your previous post again and try to answer your questions one by one

Thank you Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:17 pm

Hello Brigitte (and back to your previous questions)
Is there an “I” experiencing anything or is there just looking, walking, smelling, hearing, thinking, being, going on?
I cannot see an "I". At the same time … words cannot be found to say this: no true recognition that there is just looking, walking, smelling, hearing, thinking, being, going on. It all happens sort of "by me", "through a sense of me" a separate individual… cannot express it more neatly... sorry
Who/what says it is impossible?
A contraction around the stomach area.
Can thoughts know anything about direct experience?
Some times thoughts are experienced as "recordings" and clearly seen as that. At other times they take hold of this whole mind-body-feelings expression of life.
As recordings they know nothing of course… When this body-mind-feelings thing is taken over… I do not know… I cannot see them so to say and cannot know.

A strange sensation of not being able to explain better... like if words weren't right. Nontheless here is what I perceive.

Thanks again Brigitte
Lourdes

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aubergine99
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby aubergine99 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:47 am

Good morning,
Lourdes wrote:
Looking into it, sadness is saying: look here, look now… if you do not control yourself you'll be in trouble. Behave yourself do not make a fuss. Stay put, if you don't you'll be smashed.

Yes, yes, thoughts. I'd say imprints, deeply felt, installed here. Must control, cannot let go.
Yes, these are all thoughts. Deeply entrenched thoughts are a form of conditioning and like habits, they tend to repeat themselves.
Lourdes wrote:Sometimes thoughts are experienced as "recordings" and clearly seen as that. At other times they take hold of this whole mind-body-feelings expression of life.
As recordings they know nothing of course… When this body-mind-feelings thing is taken over… I do not know… I cannot see them so to say and cannot know.
Thought recordings are memories of the past only. Only focus on the present moment of experience. If thoughts arise, see that they are only stories. Can a thought really have any power?

For this investigation, I ask you to focus only on your senses. Only senses can really tell you what is real in experience. Is there an “I” experiencing anything or is there just looking, walking, smelling, hearing, thinking, being, going on?

So you have a sensation of a “me”. “A sense” is a sensation and is clearly noticed in Direct Experience, “of me” is content of thought. Content of thought is not experienced in DE. Do you see the difference? But there is no “I” entity, is there?

What is really here? What is real? There is an experience of aliveness, but does that need to be labelled “me”? This identification with all these thoughts feels normal and familiar, but it is ultimately not real and is the cause of suffering. And it is so simple that it is overlooked.
Do you exist? There is no you. Look!

Look at a university. All it is, is a bunch of buildings, with certain types of people, with certain things being thought there. The label “university” is put on this area, and the feel of it being a university becomes very real, almost like an entity in itself. But there is only a bunch of buildings there. Now take your life, your limbs, head, brain, blood, guts, memories, thoughts, and feelings. All this stuff very much exists and is very real, but when all this stuff references itself and uses language like “me,” “myself,” and “I,” over time something that seems real appears, a feeling of ownership over all that—a feeling of control, a feeling of “I am my name,” “This is me.” But truthfully, there’s nothing more there than the brain, the blood, the guts, the thoughts, the memories, and so on. Much of this work consists of seeing how we get hooked by “our” thoughts. We examine these sharp, pointy, and sticky places. Just look in your direct experience and thought processes for the answers.

Watch how thoughts like to label everything. Close your eyes then open them. Notice the image you see before your eyes? Watch how thought appears and immediately labels what you see. The image appears in DE without labels. The raw experience is only the seeing.
Please do this exercise:

Sit for 5 minutes and observe what is happening. Write this down as a small list. Everything that you see, hear, smell, feel, think, such as:

I hear a dog bark,
I scratch my head
I cough
I see a car drive past, etc.

Speak soon
Brigitte

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:56 pm

Hello Brigitte
As we have agreed on a daily contact, I've had now the time and the opportunity to cover part of your questions. Late in the evening I will work on the rest, I am not sure that I will be able to post before 24:00 so I send what has been covered.
Thought recordings are memories of the past only. Only focus on the present moment of experience. If thoughts arise, see that they are only stories.
In the present moment thoughts circle around your sentence. Sort of questionning… I hear a far away radio station and now and then I get caught by a sentence and the mind sort of wants to be at two places at a time… I shut the radio. Back here. Mind is not willing to bring thoughts around. Not cooperative...
Can a thought really have any power?
Well… out of a body: NO!!!
Inside a body it appears to have the power to condition. Like if I am hungry and think of tomatoes it is very likely that I (this body-mind-emot) will choose to eat tomatoes… like "a physical need + a thought" do have power. I am not saying that the "physical + thought" have a need of any "I", but power…
For this investigation, I ask you to focus only on your senses. Only senses can really tell you what is real in experience. Is there an “I” experiencing anything or is there just looking, walking, smelling, hearing, thinking, being, going on?
No there is no I. As the answer is being written a strong tension arises. Like the "no-I" is upset, tense body, eyes contracted, heavy head. Lots of "resistance". No "I" really. Desire to be somewhere else to free the tension.

And here I am stuck. Later... after dinner... when everything quietens I will continue with the rest of your post.

Thanks for your patience and understanding Brigitte.

Love
Lourdes

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Lourdes
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Re: I tried on my own. I am exhausted

Postby Lourdes » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:51 am

Hello again Brigitte
After dinner yesterday following up the previous post, I stared at the rest of your post… a couple of hours and without any abbility to respond in writing. Now it is the morning of Friday 8… yes accept that there can be a difference between "sensation" and sense "of me"… in the sense that you point that "me" may come from the mind. I am puzzled: "me" feels right even if I've seen there is no I.

This as I reread it (after writing it had to go out to release tension again) sounds totally wrong…

I'll go for the 5 minutes exercise… or this puzzle is going to keep this thing (I-Me—whatever) stuck for ever…
Sit for 5 minutes and observe what is happening. Write this down as a small list. Everything that you see, hear, smell, feel, think, such as:

I hear a dog bark,
I scratch my head
I cough
I see a car drive past, etc.
I cough
I pick up a tissue
I reread the sentence
I watch the screen
I hear the sound of the fan of the computer
I hear the blood in the veins pumping in my ear
I feel my feet on the floor
I feel my bottom on the chair
I sip coffee
I look around the room
I see the door open
I see the cursor blinking
I see the sun entering the room
I touch my chin
I stare at the letters in this sentences.
I wonder about the letters.


Ok done

Hope to hear from you soon

Love Lourdes


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