Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:08 pm

Just enjoying reading the posts and relieved to have come to this site...immersed in listening to Adya recordings for the past month or so...all(seeking in that way) has come to a stop in the past several days ,after finding this site.Very powerful.
Kindest,
Trish

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:03 pm

Hi Trish and welcome,

My name's Pete and my role is to guide you through your own unique process.

There are a few things that we need to make clear before the journey begins.

Tell me a bit about yourself, how you came to LU and what it is that you're looking for. Also, what time zone are you're in - I'm in Somerset in the UK.

There are also a few standard ground rules before we start:

You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say that you're still around, and I'll do the same. Sometimes it might just not be possible for one of us to post substantively and of course we'd find a way to work round that.

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point and you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.

Responses require simple, uncontrived, honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. (Read this article: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience.)

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies etc. for the duration of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. (If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it's ok to continue with that. And it's fine to read threads in this forum and the Gateless Gatecrashers book.)

Please learn to use the quote function, see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660 for instructions.

If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info at http://www.liberationunleashed.com/, together with our disclaimer and a short video.

Please confirm that you have seen these, that you agree to the disclaimer, and that you'd like me to be your guide and then we'll begin.

Let's start with a summary of what you're looking for and what you expect to find.

What are your expectations for this process?

What is it that you are searching for?

How will you know that you found it?

How will this feel?

How will this change you?/b]

Finally, here's a couple of helpful points:

1) You can press 'subscribe to this topic' in the blue bar at the bottom of this page and receive a notification email every time I post here.

2) The site has a nasty habit of logging you out while you write a reply, which can mean you lose what you have written. One way to avoid this is to write elsewhere, then just paste the message into the 'reply' window when you're ready to send.

Don't worry, I don't intend to send any more posts this long, if I can help it! This is just to set things up for you nicely.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Lots of love,

Pete
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:31 pm

Hi Pete,
Thank you so much! Yes I do agree to what you asked. I work swingshift so there may be a longer delay posting if that's ok...I am just getting up. I live in Ca.USA Pacific time.
There has been a nervous,excited,slightly fearful energy since reading your response last evening...will look at this too...:)
I will be reading/watching and responding to your post before work today.
Kindest,
Trish

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:44 pm

Hi Trish,

Great to hear from you. There's no problem about waiting for you to respond. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Lots of love,

Pete
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:53 pm

Hi Pete,
I re-read the intro and disclaimers.I agree.Thank you again...
I was not able to access the article on DE? The link says "page not found"..
What are your expectations for this process?
I expect to be challenged,at the very least.I'm hopeful there will be a realisation of "no Trish" ultimately.
What is it that you are searching for?
Abiding realisation of no seperate self. I had a falling away of self occur when I was 20 or so. In a library. I described it,crudely,as "something inside opened and everything was included...wherever attention rested,on books that were facing me,the entire content of that book arose in a split second...there was no seperation between "me" and everything around me...and then I was seeing as Trish again,only knowing I wasn't who I thought I was.In fact -I was clear I had no Idea who I was.I cried for awhile.It just made me weep.The immensity of it...
How will you know that you found it?
While there has been some expectation,over the past couple years,that the above scenario will repeat itself ,I have to question that...Less(identification with ) habitual thought stories of victimization.Little things or big at work,or in life that come up and "I" think shouldn't be happening. It's my own private pain that interferes with being present-free,open,allowing. I will be trusting at how life isplaying out...more at peace,detached in a loving,knowing way if that makes sense.
How will this feel?
A greater sense of ease and peace as I move through life-or life moves through me I'm starting to feel is more accurate...relief pops up too!It's not my job to police everything and everyone???Really? Life will get by just fine without "Trish" micro-managing?? Crazy talk...:) A sense of trust arises...
How will this change you?/b]
What I wrote above resonates for this question as well.I had a brief "knowing" a few years ago,that every single moment of "my" life has been perfect.No mistakes,no regrets,absolutely perfect unfolding...it was a very powerful and "wow"provoking moment...Living from that place,that perspective...again,deep trust and lots of smiling :)

If I'm too wordy,please let me know...
Trish

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:57 am

Hi Trish,

Thanks for accepting me as your guide, for letting me know a bit about yourself and for accepting all the various conditions etc.. We've obviously got a fair slice of time difference between us but I reckon we can easily work with that and it should be no problem.

Sorry the link didn't work. Here it is again: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html
What are your expectations for this process?
I expect to be challenged,at the very least.I'm hopeful there will be a realisation of "no Trish" ultimately.

Thanks for sharing your expectations and understanding of what seeing that you have no separate self might be like. It's natural, of course, to wonder and speculate about what this liberation/awakening will be like but, by its very nature, I can assure you that it's just not like anyone expects, although it does differ for each one of us. I'd just stress that the work we do is definitely not intellectual or thought-based. That being so, it's best to put aside any expectations, as they reside in thoughts about the future and so are not within direct experience.

Rest assured, that when you see that there isn't and never has been a "you", a self-entity, with my guiding to help you see that fact for yourself, you'll just know. In exactly the same way that you know that unicorns aren't real, Batman doesn't exist, and there's no Santa Claus. It isn't fundamentally at all difficult, amazingly simple in fact, but only if you don't rely on trying to figure it out by thinking it through but, instead, just LOOK, LOOK, LOOK in direct experience.

So, excellent, as I've already said, actually seeing for sure that there is no separate self, and never has been, is different for everyone. It can come with a definite pop of realisation, or it might creep up gradually until it is seen. Also the effects on life lived after liberation can vary widely.

It’s worth mentioning at this early stage that what can hold a lot of people back, and something that we can perhaps knock on the head now, are assumptions around what one would 'be like' or what life ought to 'look like' once it’s seen that there’s no self-entity. There is a view that 'getting it' is tantamount to kind of somehow seeing it all the time, or being in some kind of state in which negative emotions or problems don’t arise.

It's really helpful to be clear that it's not any kind of state - it's simply direct knowing, insight. The Santa example puts it very well - 'seeing through' Santa, i.e. knowing for sure that there is no Santa, doesn't mean that little kids then spend the rest of their lives constantly thinking, 'there's no Santa'! Nor does it mean that Santa isn't apparently spotted in shopping malls in December. It's just that the story has been seen through. The direct knowing of no-self may be recollected at any time, but states still continue to come and go - pleasant, unpleasant, 'positive', 'negative'. However, that said, changes will be noticed, some possibly quite dramatic, including in relation to suffering arising from a pre-occupation with a separate self that simply doesn't exist!

I'll post once a day, perhaps occasionally more, and will tell you in advance if I know I won't be able to post. It would be good if you could do the same.

I hope that's helped to clarify the background stuff a bit. Don't hesitate to ask me about any of this.

Moving on towards the core of this work - just look at the following statement, and ponder it every which way you can:

Nothing exists outside the present moment.

Can you find anything, anything at all, that does?


And next:

How do you conceive the 'self' or 'I'/ me' that you hold 'yourself' to be?

Now look directly at the flow of experiencing. Where in that flow does the 'self' that you conceive reside? Can it be found, at all?


Pete x
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:23 am

Thanks for the info Pete and hello...
So I woke up about 4 this morning,noticing a shift of some sort in my "seeing"...pretty obvious during those few hours and continued reading and looking at DE. Fell back asleep and after waking,there has been some physical groggi-ness and a bit of a flatness to things/experience/seeing.Best way I can describe it. Just a bit off,and it could simply be that the body is fighting something...
Spent some quiet time in Nature where I sat with your questions and this is what was written:
Nothing exists outside the present moment.

This resonates-agreed...

Can you find anything, anything at all, that does?
Nithing at all...
How do you conceive the 'self' or 'I'/ me' that you hold 'yourself' to be?
As this day started and is progressing,the "person" Trish,I saw myself as ,is obscured.Upon waking early ,there was a seeing,like the story of Santa,that Trish was simply a long held intricate story.I lived as if there was a "middle-woman" "Trish" who had experiences,choices,desires,likes,etc...Trish having experiences,in life...Now,seeing life,"experiencing "in real time,present moment..being life ....in and out though...fuzzy.
Now look directly at the flow of experiencing. Where in that flow does the 'self' that you conceive reside? Can it be found, at all?
Looking at DE,the "Trish" story is only found in thoughts...no other or seperate self/identity is found.

I do feel something shifting Pete.Is it normal to feel disoriented? The answer that poped up is yes-considering the exploration being done...more posts to read.That helps...then sleep.
Thanks a bunch Pete,
Kindest,
Trish

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:14 pm

Hi Trish,
So I woke up about 4 this morning,noticing a shift of some sort in my "seeing"...pretty obvious during those few hours and continued reading and looking at DE. Fell back asleep and after waking,there has been some physical groggi-ness and a bit of a flatness to things/experience/seeing.Best way I can describe it. Just a bit off,and it could simply be that the body is fighting something...
Yeah, I recognise what you're saying about the effects arising from engaging with this process. The prospect of discovering that there really is no you, no self-entity, isn't something that most people take lightly so it's not surprising that you should feel some unusual psychological and physical effects. It's quite common to have these feelings when the truth of no-self starts to really kick in. So, don't worry, it's a good sign.

Keep in mind that you won't disappear. You cannot. You never “were” in the first place. Existence exists and always has and always will. What does not exist is this “you” —the imaginary ownership of a piece of existence.
Spent some quiet time in Nature where I sat with your questions
Spending time in Nature, directly experiencing nature, is a really good thing to do when you're engaging with this process (or any time for that matter).
Looking at DE,the "Trish" story is only found in thoughts...no other or seperate self/identity is found.
Excellent. It's really good that you can already see that.

While we're still at this early stage, I'd just like to stress again the crucial importance of direct experience as the very core of what we're doing here with this. Essentially, and utterly fundamentally, all there is, and can ever be, is here right now in this moment. So looking to see whether a separate and separating self is to be found can only take place within direct experience of this. Now. There's nothing else. It follows therefore that all of our work to realise and actually know that there is no self is done by investigating In direct experience. To this end, we can divide direct experience into thought, sensations (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling [tactile and kinesthetic] and an unmistakable sense of Aliveness (presence/being). I hope the link to the video clip about direct experience that I re-sent you finally worked.
How do you conceive the 'self' or 'I'/ me' that you hold 'yourself' to be?
As this day started and is progressing,the "person" Trish,I saw myself as ,is obscured.Upon waking early ,there was a seeing,like the story of Santa,that Trish was simply a long held intricate story.I lived as if there was a "middle-woman" "Trish" who had experiences,choices,desires,likes,etc...Trish having experiences,in life...Now,seeing life,"experiencing "in real time,present moment..being life ....in and out though...fuzzy.
Good observations. I like your phrase I lived as if there was a "middle-woman" "Trish" who had experiences,choices,desires,likes,etc...

During this guiding, I'd like to take you gradually, in a loosely structured, flexible way, through all areas of experience, to see if you can find a self here. So that you can actually SEE for yourself.

As I've just said, the whole of this investigation centres around looking in direct experience to see if a self-entity can be found anywhere there. This is accompanied by seeing that it is in thoughts and only in thoughts that 'I' ever 'occurs' and that 'I' doesn't actually occur there either because thoughts, or at least their contents, are neither reliable nor real in any sense.

So anyway, let's start investigating in direct experience where a self-entity might be by looking at sense arisings and the self as experiencer (or not):

When you look at something, a book, a tree outside or whatever, can you find an 'I' that is looking or seeing, or is there just seeing?

If there is an 'I', where are the boundaries between what is being seen, the seeing process itself and the seer?

Please do the same with hearing: birdsong, music, a pneumatic drill or whatever; and similarly with each of: tasting, tactile feelings and smelling.


Pete x
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:58 pm

Thanks Pete,
Just a quick note...

I did get, and read ,the link-although it is an article-not a video.Let me know if there is another video you suggest.
Heading back out to the river with questions in tow...
BTW-I appreciate the "gradually, loosely structured, and flexible way"...:)

Trish

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:55 am

Hi Pete,
Had a very quiet day off,being with the questions and noticing/looking...
Another beautiful walk/sit at the river.
So...
When you look at something, a book, a tree outside or whatever, can you find an 'I' that is looking or seeing, or is there just seeing?
No "I" to be found..just seeing,simple seeing.
If there is an 'I', where are the boundaries between what is being seen, the seeing process itself and the seer?
None to be found in DE.
Please do the same with hearing: birdsong, music, a pneumatic drill or whatever; and similarly with each of: tasting, tactile feelings and smelling.
I looked at each of these in DE,sometimes all were happening in the same experience,like eating a apple...The feeling and coolness of the apple as it was picked up.The looking at it,biting into and hearing the crunch,tasting the juice and flavors.The experience of chewing and swallowing...enjoying the whole of the experience.

Same at the river.Birdsongs,water dancing,splashing sounds,geese flying past... got mooned by two ducks...a double moon :) OK-I added to that a bit...they were eating and when I looked over-all that was seen ,were two duck butts,..
Yes and a very palpable feeling of aliveness...a constant tingling throughout the body.More present in the past several days,although,it's been noticable for several months...Lots of smiling...giddiness.

I went to a drive thru car wash,and waited.When the attendant came out,he motioned for me to wait,and walked over to another car that had just pulled up next to me...apparently,I have the lower end Loser duck membership,and she had the more costly,Lucky duck membership...well,when the attendant's finger went up for me to wait,Trish came back...kind of...there was a ripple of energy in the tummy area,thought stories quickly assessing and concluding what was going on....feeling hurt(mildly)sadness irritation arising,and yes-watching/looking,feeling ...all of it came up...those sre sticky moments for me,when" I" seems real again.

I looked at this while at the river-no sign of a seperate Trish anywhere...really strong identification with the thought stories though,initially,not lasting,just during those moments...
This exploring is fun :) Lots of discovery.

Thanks Pete,
Trish

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:19 pm

Hi Trish,
When you look at something, a book, a tree outside or whatever, can you find an 'I' that is looking or seeing, or is there just seeing?
No "I" to be found..just seeing,simple seeing.
If there is an 'I', where are the boundaries between what is being seen, the seeing process itself and the seer?
None to be found in DE.
It's great that all that all 'you' experience in 'your' awareness is simply seeing,; no seer, no separate object seen, just all one, seeing. The same goes for you with each of the other senses, just the 'ing-ness'of it all. Good observations of raw, direct experience too.

Can you see that, in direct experience, even the nouns like apple, water, geese, duck butts:), etc. etc. are kind of redundant? There is just this happening right now. How can there be any 'me' in that?
Yes and a very palpable feeling of aliveness...a constant tingling throughout the body.More present in the past several days,although,it's been noticable for several months...Lots of smiling...giddiness.
This shows that you are noticing being present, not so caught up in thoughts. It's worth bearing in mind though that thoughts, and feelings, will always come whenever they do, pleasant and unpleasant. There's nothing wrong with that, thoughts are part of living life; it's just being seduced by what they tell us, including all the I-thoughts that continually arise, that causes the problem, or at least gives the impression that there's a problem.
well,when the attendant's finger went up for me to wait,Trish came back...kind of...there was a ripple of energy in the tummy area,thought stories quickly assessing and concluding what was going on....feeling hurt(mildly)sadness irritation arising,and yes-watching/looking,feeling ...all of it came up...those sre sticky moments for me,when" I" seems real again.
Yeah, it's at exactly these times of stress and other negative feelings and emotions, when everything seems to 'solidify', that the self illusion tries to make it's big comeback. Still happens to me. It's the I-thoughts that I mentioned above and they just have to be seen for what they are. Recognised, not resisted, and allowed to pass through and subside. They thrive on attention. Just try it next time a challenging situation arises. Easier said than done, but just watch those thoughts come and go without attaching. No you, no Trish to get caught up, or upset.

I'm happy that you're enjoying this exploring. It should be light and fun!

Ok, now let's move on to looking - in direct experience - for the self as doer/controller:

It's clear that when we breathe, blink, digest food etc. there's no "I" involved, but how is it for you when walking?

How is it when doing various everyday things like say, brushing your teeth, washing up, that kind of thing?

Is there any "I" there for any of these actions, or are they just like 'automatic'?

Look to see whether, when "you" do these things there is sometimes a thought, just after that says, "I did that."

Are all actions 'automatic'?


Pete x
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:26 am

Hi Pete,

Spent some time looking at these today and tonight.
It's clear that when we breathe, blink, digest food etc. there's no "I" involved, but how is it for you when walking?
There is the same awareness of just walking,not a Trish doing it...
How is it when doing various everyday things like say, brushing your teeth, washing up, that kind of thing?
Same with these...there was "brushing" and "showering" and "dressing" just being done.No Trish found in DE "doing these things...simple knowing or "impulse is seen/felt.Movement ,and then thought kicks in about doing it..."oh, I have to brush my teeth"...


Is there any "I" there for any of these actions, or are they just like 'automatic'?

There is no "doer" found....just impulses that seem quickly followed by thoughts about the doing.
No I...not sure if automatic fits though...there's more life to it...if that makes sense...may just be over thinking the word,it's late :)
Look to see whether, when "you" do these things there is sometimes a thought, just after that says, "I did that."
I was not seeing that thought arise during the moments of watching/looking today,in the moments while I was home .More often there was just flowing /moving into the next thing. At work,those thoughts come up as I go through the mental check list of things "I've done" or still need to do....there is a playful response sometimes with a "who did that??" :)
Are all actions 'automatic'?
Automatic meaning not a "me" making them happen? Then yes...automatic.I may need more time with this last one..or maybe asked in a different way?
Thanks Pete...:)

User avatar
moondog
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:14 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby moondog » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:27 pm

H Trish,
Is there any "I" there for any of these actions, or are they just like 'automatic'?
There is no "doer" found....just impulses that seem quickly followed by thoughts about the doing.
No I...not sure if automatic fits though...there's more life to it...if that makes sense...may just be over thinking the word,it's late :)
I know exactly what you mean about the word 'automatic'. To me, it sounds a bit robotic and lifeless, whereas, this that just is, that is direct experience, is life itself. That said, it's a useful word to convey the lack of any doer or controller. And, I can't think of better one.
Look to see whether, when "you" do these things there is sometimes a thought, just after that says, "I did that."
I was not seeing that thought arise during the moments of watching/looking today,in the moments while I was home .More often there was just flowing /moving into the next thing. )
There is no "doer" found....just impulses that seem quickly followed by thoughts about the doing.
A flowing from one thing into the next is great, but you seem to be saying that when you were at home doing stuff, on the one hand, after an action thoughts quickly followed about what you'd just done, but on the other hand after doing stuff, there were no thoughts that said, 'I did that' or similar. Can you just clarify that please.
At work,those thoughts come up as I go through the mental check list of things "I've done" or still need to do....there is a playful response sometimes with a "who did that??" :
Clearly, when you're at work, where it seems that things need to be more structured and organised, thoughts about doing arise more distinctly. I like the fact that, even then, you're able to step back and ask "yourself" who's doing the doing!

So that all looks good to me. Going back briefly to what I was saying in my previous post, have you had a chance to look again at how, in more stressful or emotional situations, just being aware that the thoughts that arise in response are just that, only thoughts, particularly I-thoughts, that can simply be observed passing though? If you haven't, no matter, give it a go when the time's right, and when you remember.

Ok, let's now move on to look at whether there's any self to be detected when choices/decisions happen. Try this exercise:

Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?

Also, can I ask you to have a look at the following short video clip from BBC Horizon - The Secret You on Neuroscience and Freewill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE . It demonstrates scientifically that our decisions and choices are made a full 6 seconds before we think we make them, i.e. before a thought arises saying, "I decided to do this." There is no substitute for looking in direct experience, but this is excellent scientific corroboration for what is to be found, or rather not found, in direct experience. Not only that, but this is pretty fundamental stuff and I don't think it can only apply to certain decisions and choices but not others, say, those that are more complex or emotionally charged! Let me know what you think.

In direct experience 'things' just happen. Do you agree? If not, please describe for me what you see that makes choices or decisions.

Just to let you know that I think you're doing really well so far Trish. How do you think it's going? Any problems?

Lots of love, Pete
'Just consciousness taking the shape of experience from moment to moment.
Just this'

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:40 am

Hi Pete,
I'll respond to the full post in the morning as I worked late tonight.

I do want to respond to this bit now b/c it arose at work,which is usually where it does...and where I seem to be challenged most.
You said:
"So that all looks good to me. Going back briefly to what I was saying in my previous post, have you had a chance to look again at how, in more stressful or emotional situations, just being aware that the thoughts that arise in response are just that, only thoughts, particularly I-thoughts, that can simply be observed passing though? If you haven't, no matter, give it a go when the time's right, and when you remember."

The thought arises and there is strong identification with it as it develops into a stronger story alive with emotions and bodily tensions...All the while awareness/noticing...there was looking and asking if a "self" or "me " was there..even not finding one and seeing that, the fighting/resistance with realitycontinued as the thought pattern kept arising. The awareness is there big time...yet the distraction and inner chaos continues...not sure how to not feed into it.
I will say-there is curiousity and a sense of being a detective with this...underlying fear story-some injustice being done to "Trish"
There was less reactivity,and I do understand these patterns are strong.The awareness and contraction and pain seem to get strong too...At every opportunity,I moved into DE mode if you will which did help break it up so to speak.
Just wanted to get that out there-I will do some work around this tonight,and I will post again tomorrow regarding the other questions/exercises.
Thanks Pete,

:) T

User avatar
Nowisagoodtime
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Is a Guide available? Thank you :)

Postby Nowisagoodtime » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:20 pm

Good morning Pete (or evening for you I reckon:))
A flowing from one thing into the next is great, but you seem to be saying that when you were at home doing stuff, on the one hand, after an action thoughts quickly followed about what you'd just done, but on the other hand after doing stuff, there were no thoughts that said, 'I did that' or similar. Can you just clarify that please.
I wrote...
"There is no "doer" found....just impulses that seem quickly followed by thoughts about the doing..."
If this is what you are asking about,I didn't mean thoughts about what "I " had just done.More like,the urge and movement towards getting out of bed followed by the thought" I have to use the bathroom"...then peeing happens etc...The action is already in motion,before the thoughts arise and are seen. No "me behind it though.

That does come up,as I look these past days,quite often . "I" need to make coffee...Sometimes no I,just "gotta hop in the shower"or-ok,get ready for work Trish,come on...let's go. That type of "self talk". Same thing in DE,no seperate doer or Trish.Yet the habit of referring to myself as a seperate "person" seems very present.
Raise your right arm (or don’t). In that process of raising the right arm (or not), a decision is made, or at least something happens (or doesn’t). But can you pinpoint the actual moment of choice and find the actual entity that appears to be making that choice? In direct experience, can that moment of choice, that apparent chooser, actually be found? Or does the idea 'I just chose to (not) raise my right arm' come after the event itself?
This just made me smile,like a playfullness arose initially...it didn't matter which one "I" raised. Not able to discern or see a moment of choosing or chooser.Just the doing.The raising.
Also, can I ask you to have a look at the following short video clip from BBC Horizon - The Secret You on Neuroscience and Freewill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3AiOS4nCE . It demonstrates scientifically that our decisions and choices are made a full 6 seconds before we think we make them, i.e. before a thought arises saying, "I decided to do this." There is no substitute for looking in direct experience, but this is excellent scientific corroboration for what is to be found, or rather not found, in direct experience. Not only that, but this is pretty fundamental stuff and I don't think it can only apply to certain decisions and choices but not others, say, those that are more complex or emotionally charged! Let me know what you think.
I really liked that video clip.Makes me "see" that initial impulse/movement that is sensed ,or felt, prior to the thougts is the doing.If that makes sense.The flow of experience.The movement into doing what seems/is obvious .

The last part of your question about it applying to complex or emotionally charged decisions seems accurate as well.In those moments,the distraction or intensity of the thoughts/"I" story certainly seem to magnify.And the experience seems more convoluted. This is where "I" get tripped up into asking/knowing what is the "right" decision/thing to do is. I become " TRISH,THE DECIDER IN CHIEF" :)Overthinking,over analyzing.Upon looking at DE,again,no Trish...decider in chief is simply what is,in the present moment.The experience.Thoughts,emotions,sensations and the seeing of this.

Someone mentioned in another post,that their brain felt like it was being twisted into a pretzel...I concur :)
Thanks for the encouragement Pete...
I do notice a shift and especially when I engage /interact with others. I work for a well known"neighborhood" grocery chain . Lots going on ,busy. Talk about flow:) In DE,there seems to be less of a "barrier" between myself and others.Very subtle,and nice. All of this has been subtle.Which does bring up the question'am I missing something?" And a recognition that this story of "Trish" as a seperate "real" person, has been the greatest uninvestigated assumption. Up until this past week or so... :)

Thanks again Pete.


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest