Yes, please

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kaspars
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Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:05 pm

Hi,
I'm Kaspars.

I do see that "I" doesn't refer to anything that is by itself, yet for me it refers to this body and the mind. the image i see in a mirror. mind or thoughts is somehow designed to protect the body as good as it can. so it is a part of "me" - isn't it? Like with your example of university - if you reference to books and teachers, etc then teachers and the books are a part of this thing we call university. its a concept. the same way as teachers are people, etc. and the reality, at least mine, for some reason seem to work that way that if I put in something - learn something and then ask myself to repeat it - i can. i can learn/speak a foreign language, for isntance. so something that can be referenced as "I" have learned it. i dont know how it works, but it seems to work this way. it seems to be a pretty standard belief in me that works.
Could you please help me see clearer?

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:03 pm

Haha Kaspars

Lets use this one :)

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:04 pm

There is some terms to follow:
1. I ask, you answer
2. We will reply at least once a day
3. Please refrain from spiritual search/practice while we work together, if possible
4. Be honest

Agree on those terms and we are running!

How do you see that 'I' doesn't refer to anything by itself? What does it refer to?

Warm regards
Vivi

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:51 pm

Yes, I agree.
There are several things.
“I” seems to be a property of some thoughts that e.g. seem to tell me that I like something or dislike something. The thought refers to the “I” and a thought can cause a feeling that makes me assume that I am the body and, e.g. I have a contracting feeling in my chest.

The “I” that likes or dislikes can’t seem to be found when I look. Yet, something has curiosity to find out what exactly I am. I have to assume to be able to think about “me”, thinking seems to happen only in concepts – I might be some sort of believing function (e.g. believing in some thoughts), but I can’t seem to detect the moment when believing happens, but it must be there. :)

Being able to feel intense feelings makes me think that I am, being locked into a thought makes me think/feel that I am. There doesn’t seem to be “me” that is on the receiving end, experience seems to flow through me in some way, but I wonder, what am I / how does this work.

There seems to be separation, I can feel my body, I can’t feel someone’s else’s body as I assume they do, etc. so I there are parts of me that seem to be separated from others like me.

The experience feels better when living happens from the “heart”, the mind can’t understand that, but I don’t seem to want to leave it like that – not understood :)

Also people are describing some other experiences and I’m wondering maybe I can have that, but I don’t know how, I don’t seem to have a choice, yet the flow somehow seems to be changing and something in me seem to have an impact on what happens, but only to a certain degree and the rest has to be accepted.

Sorry for writing this much text. I’m just confused.

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:15 pm

Hi Kaspars

There is no me.
There is no thinker.
There is no chooser.
There is no doer.
There is no intender.
There is no sepration.
There is no experiencer.

Happening happens.
Experience happens.

All of it just thoughts.

What are experienced when reading this?

What to experience are wanted?
What expectations are there?

Warm greetings Vivi

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:10 am

disbelief. It might be as u say, that everything is a thought, yet thinking is still happening - some words appear, sounds appear, images appear, even with eyes closed. and some automatic believing happens and engagement happens.

regarding experiences -i would like to experience oneness (that i am all of this) and experience that nothing really can harm me, regardless of what happens. all these are thoughts at this moment in time.

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:33 am

Yes you are right all of it happens. To who?
Is there anybody there it is happening to or to make it happen?
Can you find anyone?

This inquiry in LU Forum is solely to see through the illusion of 'I'
Rest will be taken care of in aftercare groups If you want to join

Greetings Vivi

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:41 pm

>Yes you are right all of it happens. To who?

there doesn't seem to be anyone on the receiving end, when i look.

>Is there anybody there it is happening to

well, there is my body. i can for example feel contractions in my body because of thoughts, etc... my body is not "me" per say, but it seems to have something to do with me.

>or to make it happen?

there is this idea that I can make some thoughts happen.

it's pretty hard to write this. seems like inventing problems. my body is my reference. the rest is thoughts, or a voice/picture/sound that is somehow known to me and called thoughts or maybe information.

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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:46 pm

and then of cource - there is no "me", when i look - i can't find it. so it makes this whole text pretty weird.

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:46 pm

Yes. weird it seems :)

Now look at thoughts, you said there is this idea that you can make some thoughts happen. Which thoughts can you make happen? How? Who makes ideas happen when there are no 'I'? Is it more than an idea? Look carefully.

Have a nice day
Vivi

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Re: Yes, please

Postby dreamer » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:41 pm

Knock knock ..... hello Kaspars

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:09 pm

I can't find the doer, yet there is this paradox of being able to do. same with some thinking. confused and pissed a bit.

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:42 pm

I really don't know what there is to find. the is no doing, yet there is still screwing up. ok ok - nothing is screwing up. and none of it seems to matter anyway, just a joke.

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:45 pm

no thinking - no problem, since thinking happens there are problems until there are no problems, none of it seems to be influenced by me and quite a lot is influenced by me. some mindfuck.

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kaspars
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Re: Yes, please

Postby kaspars » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:26 pm

>Which thoughts can you make happen?

I can make a "voice in my head" say something. In other words i can insert some text in the thought streem that I somehow know.

>How?

I do not know how it works. I wish it and it happens. It's maybe like speaking. It might happen on its own, but it can happen when i want to. i don't know who wants, since i can't find the one who wants.

>Who makes ideas happen when there are no 'I'? Is it more than an idea?

Yes, All of it is ideas. when there are no ideas, when things quit down, all these made up problems dissapear ... and then it starts all up, all of it changes all the time.

All of it seems to be thoughts. 1 thought says that "i can make stuff happen", something happens, and another thought assumes identification.
how do i see trought this made up dialog in my head? its the same voice on both sides, just a circus going round and round, both prosecution and a jury.


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