It seems close but yet so far

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CuriousBeing
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It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:59 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We are living in an illusion that we are some thing, an entity which we can point to and say that's 'me' or 'I' but intellectually it's debatable.
'I' understand there is no self but when I attempt to see this I just end up wanting for something to happen. I seem stuck.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance from someone who has achieved (or rather let go of) the seeking. Someone who has seen for himself that Santa (Self) is not real. I am currently reading the gateless gatecrashers and the pointing helps me but no longer how long I look I can't seem to break through it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
There is no 'I' so who is expecting? It's quite frustrating understanding what the spiritual texts point to yet still being 'stuck' in the illusion. 'I' hope to be pointed in the right direction so that I may finally see reality for what it is and help others to realise their true nature themselves.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started this journey almost 7 years ago when I awoke one day and decided to try meditate. I do not recall why I wanted to do it but I remember sitting in my yard and just trying to focus on the present. It led to me being outside for about an hour sitting down cross-legged. I felt calmer and also started disconnecting somewhat from other people as it seemed like people were very reactive. My journey took me through looking into Buddhism, and Ramana's Self inquiry, Mooji, Eckhart Tolle and the likes.

Last year I read the power of now and felt very peaceful and content. I do not recall another time of feeling so at peace and happy.

Currently I'm trying to see the doer or see the hearer but there is none. We are that which we seek but why I can't I 'see' it!

I want to see the truth because I believe it to be the way forward to live a more peaceful life and I will give my best at seeing reality.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Ronaldo
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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:27 am

Hello and welcome to Liberation Unleashed,
Thanks for waiting patiently for a guide, as you can see we're a bit busy :)

You've reached out to me about a week ago, and I understand that you've done some reading on the forum, but for the duration of this inquiry with me, please let go of all books, youtube videos and the likes related to enlightenment, spiritual search, personal growth, or even reading other threads, it will only add confusion.

We are going to be exploring beliefs, and so you don’t need to believe anything I say, quite the contrary, you have to verify everything I point to experimentally.

The key ingredients are honesty and curiosity. Please post daily, and if you can't or need more time, just let me know.

Agreed?

You said something shifted and life feels different now, is that still the case? Can you describe it?
What is the self from your experience?
What do you expect should happen next?

Regards
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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CuriousBeing
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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:37 am

You've reached out to me about a week ago, and I understand that you've done some reading on the forum, but for the duration of this inquiry with me, please let go of all books, youtube videos and the likes related to enlightenment, spiritual search, personal growth, or even reading other threads, it will only add confusion.

We are going to be exploring beliefs, and so you don’t need to believe anything I say, quite the contrary, you have to verify everything I point to experimentally.

The key ingredients are honesty and curiosity. Please post daily, and if you can't or need more time, just let me know.

Agreed?

Agreed!
You said something shifted and life feels different now, is that still the case? Can you describe it?

It happened about a week ago but the effect or state had pretty much disappeared after a few hours. It felt like calmness with the mind being quiet. I felt somewhat detached. I experienced something similar yesterday but not as intense.
What is the self from your experience?

From my experience, looking for it as though I were a six year old, I can't find the self. I curiously look around to find what we call I or me but they point to emptiness. It's vacant space.
What do you expect should happen next?

This sounds like a trap. I'm finding when I'm impatient or frustrated with the practice that there is an expectation about. I do however wish to recognise this delusion to help others experience it too. I believe identification with the ego causes a lot of suffering for everyone so I wish to be of service to help others realise this.

Thank you for taking the time and being my guide Ron. I really appreciate it and I will give my best.

Simon

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Ronaldo
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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:55 pm

Hi Simon,
Thanks for your reply.
Glimpses happen, but also delusion happens, just look at cults and some places of worship and you'll see delusion disguised as true seeing. This is not something we're looking for, we're looking for a shift which is permanent, it's not another state.
This sounds like a trap. I'm finding when I'm impatient or frustrated with the practice that there is an expectation about.
Let's get this idea of traps also clear :)
There are no traps or clever twists, with exercises the point is to experience the simplicity rather than the thought chatter. With questions I'm probing your beliefs and if something is spot, I will confront you with that belief. So it's to your benefit to say it like it is, even if you feel like you're walking into a trap. If you avoid the honest reply and choose a defensive one, I may not see your hurdles clearly and it's a miss. If I whack you over the head, it's also for a purpose, just be ok with it, it's nothing personal.

It's best to (try) and drop any expectations and just let anything show up, just be as open as you can and learn to look at experience. I know you were following threads and may have some understandings, but let's start fresh, don't relay on anything you've done before, ok? Read it afresh, do it afresh.


Unlike learning where you build an understanding through thinking and reasoning, here we look. Looking is really simple, yet not so simple, we spent most of our lives learning by thinking, so it would help to clarify this point.
1) Looking is always done right now, at this very moment, e.g. it cannot be based on memory.
2) it’s being aware of sound, taste, smell, sensation and colors (images) to see what is really present - actual experience.
3) In addition to these sense perceptions, we are also noticing thoughts - not thinking, but noticing all thoughts as they appear. Thought content will pull you away from looking directly, but by continuous and steady looking you will inevitably unveil the trick they play in creating the illusion of an "I".
The content of thoughts is an imagined reality, think about your last meal, the thought is here, but the food isn't. That is why this inquiry can never ever be achieved via thinking and learning, and that is why the long and winding spiritual seeking effort is mostly futile.

Again, thinking will not help you realize what the self is, you have to look and experience everything directly. All I can do is ask you questions that point to something you can experience, and at times provide you with some exercises that when done with curiosity and attention can be extremely helpful. All you have to do is look at what’s there and try to drop all of your expectations, assumptions and beliefs - how hard can that be? :)

For your first exercise, Please sit down for a bit, and watch carefully:
What is there?

Sounds (from around you, from your body)
Sights (even if your eyes are closed)
sensations in the hands, arms, feet, head etc., weight of your body, maybe an itch..
smells (may be faint)
tastes (may be faint)
thoughts - these appear as words, images, sounds (a tune, a voice) and any of the senses. More often than not, thoughts appear in streams that tell stories about the past and future, what I should and shouldn't have done etc. Would you agree?

1. please provide one or more items that you noticed on each of these items.
2. Can you find anything else? Anything at all that isn't on the list?

Don't let anything escape because this list is all that is here to experience, so be very thorough.

Let me know what you find,
Regards,
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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CuriousBeing
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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:38 pm

Thanks Ron. Will get back to you tomorrow about this :)

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:19 pm

1. please provide one or more items that you noticed on each of these items.
Sight - It seems like when I really look everything feels fresh and wonder like. I can focus very hard on something or have easy focus which blurs everything but allows more rest. Sights affect thoughts and are labeled very quickly.

Sensations - It is hard to feel where my body ends and the bed starts. Sensations can be external on the body such as heat but also internal such as sadness. External sensations often require adjustment to be relieved whereas feelings can be released by focusing attention on them. I feel the need to take a deep breath when focusing on an emotion such as anxiety and it seems to flow out of me. There's an underlying sensation in the chest area. Feels like a vibrating energy.

Sounds - Sounds come in to fill the absence of sound. The absence is oddly satisfying and peaceful. Sounds are labeled very quickly.

Taste - Taste seems to require saliva to occur. To taste movement is required. Foods with spices or certain properties allow lingering taste.

Smell - Smell rarely comes into focus once a smell is recognized. Unless something prominent such as feces or a lovers' perfume comes up it rarely grabs our attention. Smell of food when we're hungry also grabs attention.

Thoughts - All the aforementioned affect thoughts. If a loud sound is heard the mind will spit out what it believes the source to be. Along with the thought emotions may or may not come up. Thoughts cannot be controlled or stopped. They come up and pass away on their own. Giving attention to thoughts seems to bring more thoughts. It's like feeding a stray dog and more dogs showing up. There seems to be the ability to direct thoughts at certain things and that makes it feel personal but that happens after the thought takes place. It seems like the mind slaps the label I to the thought. 'I' thought that.

None of the aforementioned are in my control. They just happen. They happen even when I'm sleeping.

2. Can you find anything else? Anything at all that isn't on the list?
There is a sense of presence. Of something being here.

This is what I came up with. What is your timezone if you don't mind my asking? Mine is GMT+1. So I can plan my responses accordingly :)

Thanks
Simon

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:10 am

Hi Simon,

I'm UTC−05:00 and I would usually answer in my evening - when you're sleeping. So you can answer anytime during your day/evening and see my reply the next morning, it's perfect.
Another administrative note - if your reply is long, I highly recommend you type the reply in a text editor before posting, our site can sometimes hang and you can lose your entire work. You can even use

Code: Select all

[quote] and [/quote]
tags to markup your plain text.

Please answer all questions in blue, I sometimes have rhetorical questions and these, well... they are rhetorical :)
Sight - It seems like when I really look everything feels fresh and wonder like. I can focus very hard on something or have easy focus which blurs everything but allows more rest. Sights affect thoughts and are labeled very quickly.
I only wanted you to list one or more items you see, hear etc. not how you see, feel and what it means.
It's quite possible my words were confusing so I will not fail you on reading instructions, and fix my questions for next time :)
Yes, it's very true that thoughts tags everything seen almost instantly, and if you see this that's great.
Try to look at an object and let the tags drop away, can you?

Sensations - It is hard to feel where my body ends and the bed starts. Sensations can be external on the body such as heat but also internal such as sadness.
What makes you know where the body ends and the bed starts?
How do you know that a sensation is coming from outside the body (say you're standing barefoot on a hot pavement)?
Is sadness a sensation? Please explain.


External sensations often require adjustment to be relieved whereas feelings can be released by focusing attention on them. I feel the need to take a deep breath when focusing on an emotion such as anxiety and it seems to flow out of me. There's an underlying sensation in the chest area. Feels like a vibrating energy.
Isn't "external sensation" a tag too?
Put your hand on the table and close your eyes.
What is actually experienced? Can you tell what is hand and what is table?
Can you tell what the table is made of?

I will remind you that an experience is not thought content.

By focusing on the breath you've effectively stopped focus on the sensation tagged as "anxiety".
Isn't focusing on your breath simply taking attention off the thought and sensations that is feeding the label anxiety?

I read the rest of your reply, you have some good points mixed with beliefs, but again, this is not what I intended you to go into.

Your replies were quite loaded with thought content and that is key in this inquiry.
Let's make this clear again. We are looking at Direct Experience (DE), or sometimes referred to as Actual Experience (AE), as I explained before these are the 5 senses and thoughts as a phenomenon, but the thought content is NOT a real experience.

Please do this exercise, really get into it so that you will experimentally see the difference.

1. pick some fruit, best if aromatic and juicy, a piece of apple is great - a food you're very familiar with.
2. place it on the table in front of you.
3. With eyes closed, PRETEND that you are picking it up slowly, feel it, smell it, put it in your mouth. Chew it slowly and taste the pretend fruit, bring all your amazing memory and every bit of your imagination into this! Feel the texture and the taste, finally swallow it this pretend fruit.

In your most simple and immediate experience of smelling and tasting the pretend fruit:.
(a) What is the pretend smell made of? (what is it?)
(b) What is the pretend taste made of?


4. take the actual fruit, smell it for real, put it in your mouth, taste it carefully, chew and finally swallow.

Describe the real smell and taste
Describe the real texture

When you compare the two experiences, one composed of thoughts and imaginations about eating this apple, to eating the apple - what are your conclusions?
Could the thought fruit satisfy you?
Is it super clear why a though isn't a real experience?
Since the illusion is generated by thoughts, can you see why we cannot rely on thoughts to expose the illusion?


Regards,
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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CuriousBeing
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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:49 am

Try to look at an object and let the tags drop away, can you?
Yes it is possible. I look at the computer speaker and the thought 'speaker' comes up but then drops and I just the individual parts of what make up a 'speaker'.

What makes you know where the body ends and the bed starts?
It's all sensation. Picturing my hands on the bed make it feel like they are separate but it's all just sensation. Conceptualising in the mind makes it appear as though there is a gap between body and sensed object.
How do you know that a sensation is coming from outside the body (say you're standing barefoot on a hot pavement)?
There is only sensation. I can't find outside or inside. Only the sensation being felt.
Is sadness a sensation? Please explain.
Sadness is a sensation. It is felt inside my chest and by looking at it the resistance dropped and it was allowed to be as is. Not bad or good. Just a sensation.
Isn't "external sensation" a tag too?
There is only sensation. Internal/External is a label by the mind.
What is actually experienced? Can you tell what is hand and what is table?
A sensation is felt. When the fingers press downward into the table the sensation grows in certain places but only picturing my hand allows me to actually feel my hand.
Can you tell what the table is made of?
Only be looking at the labels the mind places on the sensations.

(a) What is the pretend smell made of? (what is it?)
It is very faint and requires much effort to focus on it but it seems imaginary. I cannot actually smell it but only think it. So I'd have to say it is a thought.

(b) What is the pretend taste made of?
Taste is not found but a lot of saliva was produced.

Describe the real smell and taste
Smells grassy and tastes juicy, sweet and sour.
Describe the real texture
Rough and fuzzy.
When you compare the two experiences, one composed of thoughts and imaginations about eating this apple, to eating the apple - what are your conclusions?
Thought comes no where close to the actual experience.
Could the thought fruit satisfy you?
No, it only led to me wanting to actually eat the fruit in reality.
Is it super clear why a though isn't a real experience?
Thoughts are real but the content is not. A thought seems to convince the body, even if I couldn't taste or smell it there was some anticipation for the actual fruit.
Since the illusion is generated by thoughts, can you see why we cannot rely on thoughts to expose the illusion?
Yes. Especially since the activity itself raised some frustration and the thoughts 'Why can't I do this? It should be simple to imagine this!'. I saw the thoughts and the sensations as just that. P.S the fruit I imagined and ate was a non peeled kiwi.

I hope this is what you meant by imagining :)!

Thanks for your time.
Simon

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 am

Hi Simon,
I look at the computer speaker and the thought 'speaker' comes up but then drops and I just the individual parts of what make up a 'speaker'.
What are these individual parts?
If you really look and let all thoughts drop, what is really there besides color which makes up borders, shapes and then thought give names to? Take another very close look now, don't rush it.
Do you see anything but color and thoughts making them into things?

R: What makes you know where the body ends and the bed starts?
S: It's all sensation. Picturing my hands on the bed make it feel like they are separate but it's all just sensation. Conceptualising in the mind makes it appear as though there is a gap between body and sensed object.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say "it's all sensation", then you say "Conceptualising in the mind makes it appear as....".
Does a sensation come with explanation of what that is?
Or is that provided by thought?
A thought can be any imagined sense, a sound, an image, a tag etc.

Sadness is a sensation. It is felt inside my chest and by looking at it the resistance dropped and it was allowed to be as is. Not bad or good. Just a sensation.
If the sensation is no longer bad or good, it's also no longer tagged as sadness, is it?
So sadness isn't a sensation but an emotion or feeling. It's a thought and a sensation, often feeding more thoughts and sensations. Agree?

When the fingers press downward into the table the sensation grows in certain places but only picturing my hand allows me to actually feel my hand.
Is that right?
Or rather only picturing your hand pressing on the table makes you think it's a hand pressing on a table?
The sensation is there! The thought turns a detached abstract raw sensation into a hand and a table.
Do you see that?
(a) What is the pretend smell made of? (what is it?)
It is very faint and requires much effort to focus on it but it seems imaginary. I cannot actually smell it but only think it. So I'd have to say it is a thought.
Yes, an imaginary smell is a thought!

(b) What is the pretend taste made of?
Taste is not found but a lot of saliva was produced.
Good job on vivid imagination! Indeed it's not always easy to tell the difference, but the question was what is the pretend taste made of? And just like the pretend smell, it is a thought of a taste experience.


It's important that breaking down activities, objects and emotions as DE is incorporated into your daily life throughout your day, every day. Like any habit, it has to be practiced in order for it to become second nature. I would like you to do the following exercise as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily ACTIVITIES, OBJECTS AND EMOTIONS simply as color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

For example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down objects, emotions, objects and daily activities into DE and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Thank you
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:41 am

Do you see anything but color and thoughts making them into things?
No I only see color which forms a shape and the thought that comes with a label.
Does a sensation come with explanation of what that is?
A sensation comes followed by a thought with a label. A sensation came up earlier which was labelled 'Sadness' then I looked and found only the sensation with the label coming up after. Ignoring the label allows the sensation to be and leave. Freedom felt when this was done.
Or is that provided by thought?
Thought labels the sensation.
If the sensation is no longer bad or good, it's also no longer tagged as sadness, is it?
Exactly! It is only a sensation which the mind judges and labels.
So sadness isn't a sensation but an emotion or feeling. It's a thought and a sensation, often feeding more thoughts and sensations. Agree?
Agreed but sadness is just a mind concept. It's not real. It's judgement cast onto reality, similar to how the taste thought was doing yesterday with the fruit. Giving attention to thoughts leads to a loop of more thoughts which can lead to a spiral of sensations and more thought.
Do you see that?
I could have been more clear. Yes that is exactly what is experienced. A sensation which the mind labels 'hand' or 'table'. Without the label it is just sensation.

DE: Report

A mug with some tea (coffee is for heathens) in 'my' hand.

There was color and shape which the mind labeled tea and cup.
A sensation which the mind labeled warmth.
Smell was faint and no label was provided.
Taste wasn't strong which the mind said was 'not good and plain'

Went for a walk and looked around.
'Trees' were looked at and seen to be just particular shapes which the mind labels. 'Rocks' were appreciated more for all are uniquely different colors and shapes. Everything felt more alive, vivid and exciting to look at.
A sensation was felt in the chest and the mind labeled as 'sadness'. Beyond the thought there was merely a sensation. Not bad, not good, just a sensation. Unique or not I do not know but it was acknowledged and allowed to be, experienced as is :)

I will keep doing the labeling as requested :)! Thank you for your time and patience Ronaldo, really appreciate it!

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:09 am

Noticing that it is becoming easier to ignore the labels. Looking at my leg outstretched I notice different colors that form a shape. Looking at my foot with a sock is a bit strange seeing it as it is without thought telling me it's my foot. Same goes with emotions, they are seen to be only sensations with labels. Makes it feel less personal.

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:11 am

Hi Simon,
Thank you for your time and patience Ronaldo, really appreciate it!
You're very welcome :)

A mug with some tea (coffee is for heathens)
Taste wasn't strong which the mind said was 'not good and plain'
Of course it's not good, try coffee next time.

Beautiful, well done, I think you got it.

Let's look at one of your previous answers:
Can you find anything else? Anything at all that isn't on the list?
There is a sense of presence. Of something being here.
Look again, can you deconstruct what that sense of presence is made of? Is there something to be found other than sensations and thoughts? Thoughts/tags about my sensations, thought about my sights, sensations tagged as my eyes, my face, my breath?


We can continue!

Now we're going to take a good look at thoughts. Again, even if you've seen these before, no matter, play close attention, look carefully and do it as many times as it takes to be completely sure that what is experienced is it.


Can you predict your next thought?
How do you make a thought appear (or, how do you give birth to a thought)?
where are the thoughts coming from, and where are they going to?
Could you have only pleasant thoughts for a couple of minutes?
Can you stop having thoughts?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop a thought in the middle?



Regards,
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:52 am

Of course it's not good, try coffee next time.
We will come back to this once no self is realised.
Look again, can you deconstruct what that sense of presence is made of? Is there something to be found other than sensations and thoughts? Thoughts/tags about my sensations, thought about my sights, sensations tagged as my eyes, my face, my breath?
At first glance it seems that nothing else is here. Just sensation and thought and a space within which everything shows up in. I'll look more into this throughout the day.

Can you predict your next thought?
Trying to see what the next thought is going go be quiets the mind for a bit. Then thoughts come either mentioning how time should be spent differently or that we should be doing something. I cannot predict the next thought it seems.

How do you make a thought appear (or, how do you give birth to a thought)?
By looking into memories. If I look at what happened earlier today thoughts seem to come about the event or if I think about Everest other thoughts come up about it but thinking beyond my memories seems impossible. Everything is built upon the past it seems.
where are the thoughts coming from, and where are they going to?
They appear and disappear. One moment they are here and the next they're gone.
Could you have only pleasant thoughts for a couple of minutes?
Since thoughts lead to more thoughts which are beyond control and the mind labels them as bad or good it may be possible if you've only ever had experiences which the mind decided were good. But no. It's not in my control so in my looking it is not possible.

Can you stop having thoughts?
The mind cannot be controlled. It may be presented with a question which leads to a pause in thought but eventually thought resumes.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Thoughts just appear and are being experienced then pass away.
Can you stop a thought in the middle?
Thoughts don't appear to have a start and an end. They're just one after the other or absence of more thought.

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby Ronaldo » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:40 pm

Hi Simon,
Most or all of your replies contain "seem" or "looks like" which tells me that you are rushing or thinking about the outcome and trying to rationalize it. It's too academic, any doubt here will drag on, and thoughts are critical to grok. Please don't rush, be very thorough.
If you can't be sure, you can say so but with "seems" you can get way, with "I don't know" you can't.

"I cannot predict the next thought it seems."
Really? When can you?
Dog... ?
big... (you said small)
we can go on, but do you know the next thought before it appears? Or rather, the next next thought is "oh, I knew it".

So this is just a quick example, because I'd like you to spend more time on this and answer with certainty where you can.
best
Ron
The truth is simple. If it was complicated, everyone would understand it. ~Walt Whitman
Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real ~Niels Bohr

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Re: It seems close but yet so far

Postby CuriousBeing » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:55 pm

Can you predict your next thought?
I cannot predict thoughts.
How do you make a thought appear (or, how do you give birth to a thought)?
I don't. They just arise.
where are the thoughts coming from, and where are they going to?
They just come and go.
Could you have only pleasant thoughts for a couple of minutes?
The mind cannot be controlled. Thoughts just are.
Can you stop having thoughts?
Stopping thought implies control of them, which isn't possible.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
No.
Can you stop a thought in the middle?
No I can't.

Thank you for pointing out my attempt at rationalising it. Something clicked when I went back and read your description of DE. The answers were obvious when I just looked. I cannot predict/stop/alter anything about the mind. Any doubt about it is the mind trying to rationalise it.


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