Final Countdown

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Truthcounts
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Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:39 pm

May I ask for Ilona's guidance, please?

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Hi Truthcounts. Lovely to meet you here.
Can we start from where you are at. What are you looking for? What do you expect to happen?

Kind regards
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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:23 pm

Ahh, wonderful, thank you for picking me up!

Code: Select all

Where are you at?
By now it seems even logic to me that there is no I and no world but only impersonal perceiving, but it is not yet my experience. Through my time with LU I realized that my direct experience is constantly more are less covered by hallucinations which take fragments of direct experience to wander off into stories and my system reacts more to these stories than to what really is. In magic moments like the one I saw your reaction there may be a notion that there is really no gap between the experienced and an experiencer. I feel mature for the full truth and am confident it is about to reveal but it seems I need someone like you who lets me not wander off and keeps me on track. I just read your new book which flowed in with no resistance. I love the radical and direct approach of LU and your work and it confirms my belief in this direct pointing process.
What are you looking for?
I am looking for truth. I see no sense in deceiving myself. I see the illusion of I like frictional resistance to life, a useless waste of energy. I remember the time in my life when I desperately wanted to be different then others to be someone at all but now I see the grace and relaxation in beeing no one certain. I am looking for a relief of this mental, emotional and bodily tenseness into no sufferer.
What do I expect to happen?
I am not sure. It can be a gentle shift as I feel really well prepared mentally and psychologically and seeing no honey in the I-Illussion any more. I expect there to be an intimicy of experience in the sense of no gap. It might be accompanied by intensified feeling as my access to feelings could be more free and my body more open. I expect a relief as resistance dissolves and am prepared for not only pleasant things to be felt through. The idea of an earlier spiritual path of mine was to expand identity step by step to universal consciousness and this was helpful for psychological improvement but looks endless. Identifying the non-existence of any self-identity at all is now past-due as short cut - what a beauty and perfection that the search ends with the dissolution of the searcher, the moth is ready for the flame.

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:28 pm

Thank you for thoughtful reply :)
let us begin.
In magic moments like the one I saw your reaction there may be a notion that there is really no gap between the experienced and an experiencer
there is no gap between experienced and experiencer, as one can not be without the other, it is THE SAME. it can be called experiencing. look now. feel the bum on your seat. feel that sensation, observe what is happening there, feet on the floor back resting ( or whatever is happening). is there a gap between sensation and sens-er? where is that senser in actuality? is it here without thought, memory, image? the sensation is here. sensing is happening, are you doing any of it? is it something that you are in control off? is it something you can switch off?
how about thinking, can you switch thinking off or it is just happening?
how about seeing colors and shapes?
the gap is created by language that identifies the doer of action and separates that from action. but in actuality, look now, does it matter how you name the sensation? it is here.

walking around lost in thought is a bit like hallucination. when mind dwells on the past of is constantly working on the future, the very moment of being alive here now is in the background and not lived fully. it is only a matter of noticing what is here now. end of hallucination. here now.

basically, in short, this is no step journey. from here to here. i mean notice what is happening right this moment, do you need to do anything in order to be?
find the sense of aliveness, awareness, knowing, rest in that for a minute.
where is a gap? what is separate from what?

write what you find


sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:23 pm

find the sense of aliveness, awareness, knowing, rest in that for a minute.
where is a gap? what is separate from what?
I admit I have a hard time with such exercises and I really tried, but I am not sure if its real experience or imagination from the lots I have learned from Non-Duality, Direct Pointing and the Direct Path.

Experience seems to show no material difference between seeing of world and seeing of my body, hearing of world and hearing inner body noise, sensing something touched and inner sensing. Thinking is like seeing and hearing an inner movie more or less clear - it is parallel to experiencing reality. It seems to me that the inner voice is using the same channel which connects the ear, inner pictures the same channel as connecting the eyes and even sensing can have inner simulation and so thought quality. So there is seeing, hearing, sensing of reality and each with a thought quality overlay. Some perceiving remains pretty stable or repetitive and it is that body that is always seen, heard and felt around and so invites for identification - but indeed is in the moment not different from perceiving the outer. The separation is created by the belief "I am the body" - it is a habit and is supported by language indeed.
it is only a matter of noticing what is here now. end of hallucination. here now.
Yes, I recently started to direct my attention to perceiving what is here now instead of drifting away with the inner movie when I notice suffering from it. And it works to some degree, but is like a meditating effort looking for silence.
notice what is happening right this moment, do you need to do anything in order to be?
Being is, but not effortless, as this illusion of I has a tense taste.

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:33 am

Good work! Yes, keep bringing attention to what is happening here now, that may feel like an effort at the beginning, but it gets easier.

You say
Being is, but not effortless, as this illusion of I has a tense taste.

Can you stop being? Please try. Just stop being for 3 seconds.


The tension that is felt is not I. It's tension. An uncomfortable sensation is not I. It uncomfortable intense sensation. Can you see that you put a label on contraction and call it something it is not?

Try this: look at the top right corner of the screen. Really tense your eyes, squint, look at that corner with a lot of tension, does that help to see it clearer? Does that tension becomes I? Does that tension becomes a separate entity that uses effort?

Yes, some uncomfortable sensations arise, it's natural. Why would you call that "you"? Are pleasant sensations you?. Are any sensations you?
Can you find one single sensation that is this I that you talk about?

Have fun with this.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:44 pm

Can you stop being? Please try. Just stop being for 3 seconds.
The very attempt to stop being reveals as intense being itself.
Can you see that you put a label on contraction and call it something it is not?
There is this relatively stable body mind pattern with its longlasting tensions always around me and indeed as a matter of pragmatism I label it I and assume that also the view into the world that this seeming I has will vanish together with the body mind some time. But in fact the experience does not mean that there is really a separate entity surfing through life. Identification is so easy towards things steadily around me and even watching a movie can easily suck me in to live with one of the figures - isn't it the feelings that are the glue for that phenomenon? Feelings are pervading the whole space also out of my body so it seems and therefore can take in even more into identification than the body alone.
look at that corner with a lot of tension, does that help to see it clearer?
The clearest seeing is with relaxation, with the attitude that seeing is pervading me and not me reaching out to see. An effort does not bring it any closer or clearer but confirms a separation, an object there and a tension here. In relaxed view in some sense the screen corner is half a meter away but at the same time as close as my eyelids though there is not full trust in this yet.

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:20 pm

can you find a sense of separation in experience? which sensation is that?
what is that sensation separate from?

is that sensation you?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:28 am

Thank you, Ilona, for insisting. My mind tries to find a model of reality but only goes round in circles, which gave me an unsettled night. It becomes clear to me that I never went far enough with this kind of inquiry but now even resistance in form of body ailments shows up, fever, slight headache, head cold, ache in the throat. I hope that pouring out my feedback will give me some release.
can you find a sense of separation in experience? which sensation is that?
what is that sensation separate from? is that sensation you?
Turning my attention to sensing delivers a local cloud of body sensations. Though sensing is continuous in space like also seeing is, there are shapes but not so clear cut as in vision. So I could say there is always a local sensing cloud around me which I call body sensations. It is separate in the sense that there is a far less dense sensing outside the cloud, that is why I call it a sense shape. I attribute the I to the sense cloud but I could also attribute it to the non-cloud, as both is appearing in a continuum of presence. And when "I" would be defined as something that always remains the same this presence would be a good candidate for it. But also the body appearance is pretty stable. I have a hard time following the Neti-Neti approach which assumes that everything experienced cannot be the I as the I is the experiencer. Following this logically leads to the idea, that there is no I in experience because as soon as it is experienced it violates this definition of the I. This in the end means either there really is an I that cannot be experienced but therefore it is also irrelevant for practical life as life is experiencing only. Or the I is experience itself which experiences itself. In the end both means there is only experiencing relevant. But the very fact that I have to define an I to explore it shows that it is an idea. Also stating I am the presence in which everything happens assumes a duality. Or experiencing experiencing itself sounds like unity but is also dual, because their cannot be one without more than one. This would mean, that the whole idea of I must be fake. But can this really be directly experienced beyond the mind?

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:43 am

So I could say there is always a local sensing cloud around me which I call body sensations
There is no me, that is at the centre of sensations. It's an assumption that there must be one and because it was never questioned, it is assumed to be there.
Have a look, where is the me around which sensations happen?
Don't give me any phylosophy, have a look, where is it now? Forget the logic, have a look.
Feel the bum on the seat and find the 'me' that is sensing the sensation.
Consider this for real, there I no senser, there is sensing. There is perceiving. But the perceiver is imagined.
Have a good look!
Tell me what feels true.
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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:29 pm

Der Ilona,

I am ill and trying to do this exercise is permanently distracted by thought. Maybe tomorrow it is better.

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:10 pm

Wishing you to get better soon!
Take deep rest. We will talk when you back to good.
Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 am

Feel the bum on the seat and find the 'me' that is sensing the sensation.


This morning I was resilient enough to sit with this. Sensing the bum on the seat here and now is sensing only - no senser to be found, at least not as a separate entity that could be caught by the five senses. It could be knowing or presence in the sensation though, pervading it, not being separate. Releasing the focus from the bum-sensation reveals that there is a soup of sensations around and that there is a shifting focus on some of these and more or less widening, like if there is a cone of light from a torch that brings certain parts of the soup into focus. This movement in time has a separative quality as it feels like somebody looking around. With complete defocusing it is like the bum experience above. But who is the cone of light who seems sometimes have to focus to experience something specific?

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:07 pm

But who is the cone of light who seems sometimes have to focus to experience something specific?
there is no who! that's the illusion that mind created, that there must be a who. but as you see in actuality, there are sensations and there is no separation, all that is happening is known here now. does there need to be a who? is there a subject if you don't think about it?

look even closer. where is a gap between experienced and experiencer? is there one?

sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Final Countdown

Postby Truthcounts » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:02 pm

is there a subject if you don't think about it? where is a gap between experienced and experiencer?
When sitting with closed eyes the sensation from the bum on the chair is accompanied by an inner hologram which locates the sensation in a virtual body that has its center in the throat. This hologram belongs to my understanding into the thought category, so my trouble is that I seem not to be able to sense without thought. And the virtual center supports a sense of separation.


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