Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

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Kvist
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Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:57 am

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
There has been an incessant questioning and search for truth throughout life but only lately have I begun to find the right questions. Answers led me into the area of non-duality. A friend led me to you.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:

After looking more and more intensely I have discovered that It seems there can't be a separate self. Still falling for the tricks of the mind. Hoping to find a compatible guide that would be kind enough to help me fully realize and live from a place of non-delusion.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
In short. All my life seeking knowledge about what is really going on. Always inquiring but not in any tradition. Been doing Shikantaza for about ten years.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 10

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Kvist
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Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:56 pm

Is there anything I can do to speed up the process of getting matched up with a suitable guide?

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Kvist
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Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:18 am

Is there anything I can do to speed up the process of getting matched up with a suitable guide?
By this I absolutely did not mean to try to cut in line or give the impression that I somehow was in more need than anyone else. English is not my first language so my post might sound other than I meant it to.

What I really meant to ask was if I should post more details to more easily match up with a compatible guide.

I do apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

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Nexus
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Nexus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:58 am

Hey Kvist

Welcome to our little forum. My name is Philip I'm 61 and I'd be happy to take you through a few pointers. I may not be
"suitable"
however, we'll see.

Just a little qualification about my approach in case there are any expectations (of course there are). I very rarely instruct or prescribe practice or process in this enquiry....I will usually only unpack or attempt to disentangle what has been said as a way of pointing to something on the other side of the limitations of language........ And anything I put forward can only be from my experience..and this will not solve your problems because what you think they are is just what is and there is no you to own them.


Having said that........and just to be clear....there is no letting go required here and there is no intellectual understanding vs embodiment in this enquiry. What we are getting to here is the fundamentals of the fundamentals. Jed McKenna often referred to it as the 'truth talk in the dream state' and this is the idea that this enquiry is about looking behind something, getting somewhere, or working something out. Not only is that impossible but it is not necessary, and there is no one to achieve such a thing... there is just happening- happening..What you are yearning for or seeking is already the case.... there is only this..... there is only enlightenment, there is only
"tricks of the mind"
. It is about seeing this for what it is.....we think we are seeing the movie but it is only ever the screen which is always as it is......... immutable and unchanged.....flavoured by image and colour. The screen is a metaphor for knowingness and in that knowingness everything appears and is known.

Tell me about your experience in all this........

Cheers Philip
"This'

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Kvist
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:56 am

Thank you so very much for your kind offer to guide me Philip!

First, I live in Sweden so my time of posting might be slightly out of sync.

I experience daily life as an agent, as I assume most people do but looking carefully I can't seem to find a thinker, chooser or a doer. Looking further there seem to be lacking an experiencer also.
I can not find a screen but there appears to be as sort of arena where "things" come and go.

I fail at carrying these glimpses into daily life and probably into words as well.
As for this particular moment I am writing after the fact as I am right now immersed in the daily drama and fall for all the tricks of the mind.

Maybe you recognize roughly where I'm at, can grab me by the hand and pull me in the right direction.

Or at least we may have somewhere to take off from.

Cheers Kvist

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Nexus
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Nexus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:30 pm

Hey Kvist,

Yes I totally recognise where you are at...
I fail at carrying these glimpses into daily life and probably into words as well. As for this particular moment I am writing after the fact as I am right now immersed in the daily drama and fall for all the tricks of the mind.
Firstly there is no carrying anything into daily life.....the 'glimpses' are the daily life and so is the 'falling for the daily drama'. One is not better or more worthy than the other they are just different flavours or colours of the screen. There is only ever the screen!! So if there is drama or peak spiritual experience or murder that is just what is happening.....its all has different responses, consequences and of course preferences. There would not be too many out there who have a preference for murder but that does not stop it happening. Seeing all this or liberation will not improve the happenings in your life...this enquiry has nothing to do with understanding the goings on as some sort of indicator of liberation. The freedom is seeing that all there is is liberation...then you can relax and be at peace..... no matter what is happening still have preferences...etc. I call it 'peace in traffic"

Philip
"This'

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Kvist
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:45 pm

Hey Philip
Seeing all this or liberation will not improve the happenings in your life...
Thats not what I am after.
this enquiry has nothing to do with understanding the goings on as some sort of indicator of liberation.
I'm not looking for indications of liberation but liberation itself, although indications for taking the right turn probably is needed until I get there. No? I know there is nowhere to get but for now ideas like that are just concepts and concepts I already have lots of.
The freedom is seeing that all there is is liberation...
Yes and I am looking for a way to see or fully realize that it is so. For now, to me it's just a concept.
I understand what you are saying but do not live from that reality.
How do I practically make the paradigm shift?

All the best
Kvist

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Nexus
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Nexus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 am

Hey Kviist,
I understand what you are saying but do not live from that reality.
I don't know how else to put this but you are living that reality......how could you live non-reality?
How do I practically make the paradigm shift?
Kvist....there is no paradigm shift!!! There is a concept used to attempt to capture or describe the seeing of this....and it is conceptualised as a 'shift' but it is only ever the recognition of what is already the case. What is happening can never escape what is happening, things can shift around and be rearranged or chnaged but that has nothing to do with this enquiry. The invitation is to allow the possibility that this (no matter what is happening) is it.......this is it. I may not like it or I may love it.............believing/thinking that it should not be or maybe that there is a better more congenial this....or hoping for the future to bring liberation and the 'great paradigm' shift is the suffering. Kvist........stop and look for 'yourself'.

Cheers Philip
"This'

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Kvist
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Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:30 am

Philip, Hi!

I see what you are saying. Meters of books are full with these sentiments. Do you have something practical to work with?

Best
Kvist

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Kvist
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Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:09 am

I used the word paradigm shift in lack I a better word. I never said "the great paradigm shift". What I was pointing at was the reason we all have come to this forum. This conversation, if it will proceed will be full of words used for lack of "better" words.
Respectfully, I was looking for someone to point to the lack of self and if all we do is to quarrel about choice of words I may not have come to the right place. No point in discussion if everything we write has to be put between quotation marks.

Please let me know if you think we can continue to work together or not.

Best regards
Kvist

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Nexus
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Nexus » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:24 am

Hey Kvist,

Words are important they are all we have here in the forum.......happy for someone else to pick it up though, my approach is my approach. I think you are quite defensive which indicates that there is a sense of righteousness and all you are looking for is validation and confirmation of that....Ultimately its does not matter either way but if you are defending a position look honestly and deeply into what is being defended and what is doing the defending. I was a member of a forum some years ago called the 'Ruthless Truth' in there we would tear peoples defensive belief in self apart.....it was brutal but effective.

Cheers

Philip
"This'

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Kvist
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:55 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:20 pm

Hi Philip,
I do apologize If I gave you the impression of defensiveness, the only thing I am looking for is true insight. But I in my eyes you where throwing theory at me and twisting my words so my reaction was to question If we can get anywhere if my use of words getting scrutinized is all that happens?
By reading this thread it should be clear that my frustration is because of this and has nothing to do with righteousness or wanting confirmation. Please sir, don't make claims about my character and intentions.

I have read all books by the fictional character Jed McKenna that you mentioned, I enjoyed them a lot and they served in a way as a guide for a while. The teaching you have provided reminds me a lot of reading McKenna but I have put the books down to get to the bottom of this and that's why I am here now.
Maybe we can meet again when I have made progress and I might be ready for your method of guiding.

I will check with admin if it is ok for me to wait for another guide.

Thank you Philip for taking the time and effort with me and your patients with my ignorance.
Also, thank you for the forum tip.

Have a great day!
Kvist

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Ilona
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:58 am

Hi Kvist.
I can work with you. Thanks for pm. I see that you have a strong desire to see through this thing called illusion of separate self.
What is in the way of seeing?
Do you feel stuck?
What should be different right here right now?

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Kvist
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:55 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Kvist » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:17 pm

Hi Ilona!
I can work with you. Thanks for pm. I see that you have a strong desire to see through this thing called illusion of separate self.
Thank you so much! I am 40 and since I was a child I've been trying to find out what is experiencing what is experienced. Until recently it never occurred to me it could be illusory.
What is in the way of seeing?
I do not know. I can't see anything in the way. When I look closely I experience only different sense elements. I can only describe that it seems like all elements together creates a cloud of confusion.
Do you feel stuck?
Yes. Very. This is where I'm at right now, if you think I'm deluding myself, please send me down a more fruitful route:
I can not find a center where I exist. If I point my finger at myself I can't see it point at anything special. And if I point into my left eye it's seems to be pointing just as much at "me" as when pointing into my right eye. This frustrates and fascinates me. Am I in both or none?
When I sit here switching between eyes I kind of feel centerless since I can't pinpoint my location in space, but still the label of "Me" hover around this body and the narrative of my life situation resumes.
That is one big way in which I feel stuck.

I also suspect I confuse the difference between direct experience and the labels I ascribe to them.
What should be different right here right now?
Sorry but I'm not sure what the question is. Do you mean what I would prefer?


Thank you so much for helping out!
Kvist

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Ilona
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Re: Glimpsed it. Not yet living it.

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:39 pm

Thank you for thoughtful reply.

You say that you can not find a centre where I exists. Have you considered seriously that I does not exist at all?

There is no I. Never was never will be. No controller, manager, puppet master inside the bag of skin. None as in zero. No little me calling shots from the high throne in the head.

All there is is one life flowing freely, no separate parts that are in charge of their little pieces of life.

Tell me what comes up when you consider this. What feelings, sensations on the body arise? What triggers resistance?
Write what feels true.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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