Seeing the Truth

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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Riker
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Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Mon May 23, 2016 10:18 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
I want to break through to higher consciousness... I want to be enlightened, I don't want to have a voice inside me spinning up stories and content unconsciously, feeling motions I get sucked into, resisting against things that happen in Reality, identifying and getting defensive… and all the pitfalls of not being awake.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I want to wake up! Whatever that means. I want to have the experience and have it kind of stay with me for the rest of my life. Right now I know it intellectually and have felt it at times.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?: I did a lot of kundalini yoga for a while… Ive seen a lot of Mooji on youtube, I look alot at Leo's Actualized.org enlightment videos. I try to do a lot of mindfulness and meditation.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? On a scale from one to ten (ten being most ready). : 11

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Thu May 26, 2016 8:59 pm

I guess theres alot of ego in what I want out of this huh?

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:00 am

Hi Riker
We can have a chat and see where it takes you.
All I ask of you is to answer the questions from your experience, not from what you read or heard. Write lots and everyday. Be completely honest. This is your process, I'm here only to hold your hand :)

It looks from your into that you have an idea what enlightenment looks like. I have to say, it's nothing at all what you expect. Nothing at all what mind thinks it should be. We need to leave all expectations behind and take a fresh look. And if you want to see what we point to here for the love of truth, then you will see it. If you want this seeing to fit your expectations, it ain't going to happen.

There may or may not be a ground shattering experience. There won't be any bells and whistles from higher dimensions. What we are looking at is so ordinary and simple. Plain obvious.

So if you are ready for the ride, tell me, what is the I? What is it made of and where is it found? What does it do exactly?

Take your time and answer when ready.

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:58 am

Hi Ilona :)

The I... Its like my center. All my consciousness, all experience happens to it. If I look for it I can't find it. I close my eyes and ask myself "what is the I?" Nothing can be found, just sense perceptions and the recognition that I exist somehow. I'm not sure what else to say. It's like the "I" is what observes the sounds that are my thoughts, and the feelings I experience. The I experiences all this without being any of it. It's a freaky feeling of noticing I don't exist really, and at the same time feeling that I definitely exist, in the most profound way possible. I know something exists, or I couldn't be reading your response or my own... But as an entity... There's nothing really there. But I'm here I guess, not really knowing as what I really am. Sometimes I feel I'm crazy... Than I think others are crazy so firmly affirming themselves as their personality, their body, their circumstances...

Without the "I" I don't know if I could relate to others... I feel like I use it to talk to others and relate to the others "i".

I'm scared sometimes not knowing... Thinking that anything I think I know I don't know it for sure really. But sometimes it's freeing, as I watch my life unfold and flow without having to know anything, do anything, or need anything. Like my life feels like it's a movie being watched. Sort of a depersonalizations effect I guess?

I feel good though, in general.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:13 am

Hi Riker,

thank you for honest reply, good start.
lets start zooming in and looking closer at what is unclear.
The I experiences all this without being any of it.
interesting. so how does that work?
look through the window, see a tree or grass, or whatever grows there. tell me, is life happening to the tree or as the tree? is that tree separate from life itself? or it is life itself expressing as a tree? if you have pets in the house, have a look, is life happening to them or as them?

are you separate from life?
if you think you are, and life is happening to you, have a look, where is that sense of separateness? find it. is life happening to the sensation or as the sensation?

Without the "I" I don't know if I could relate to others..
you think you need i to relate? how about this: does your left hand relate to right hand or it's one organism? does your left hand need to talk to the right hand in order to know what it is doing? or it is you that knows of both hands?

in other words, is there a gap between you and experience?

take you time to look at what is true in your experience.
write what you notice.


sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:01 pm

I guess I feel that I'm not any of it because it all changes... Like images on a screen and I'm the camera.

Life is happening as the tree... So I must be life happening as whatever I experience in the present moment.

No, the hands relate through my organism... They don't need an I. But so... I can listen to others as though they were me, the same way I think and talk to myself with my own thoughts?

So if life is happening as the tree and life is happening as a tree being perceived... Or this IPad being perceived. Then the experience is all there is without a me or an object, just the one thing experience happening. That's pretty cool.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:45 am

Yep, experience is happening, that's what is known. Me as a perceiver and the object of perceiving comes after, as a story ABOUT what is happening.

Let this state miner in, play with it and tell me what imediate reactions arise, what sensation in the body show up upon considering this:

There is no separarate self at all, no I as in zero. None. There is life flowing freely as perceptions, thoughts and feelings. But there is no I that is in chase and in control of what areas to be happening. No I that lives inside this body and gives commands to it. No I that owns the story.

Write what shows up.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:50 am

The sensations are of lightness, of freedom, of silence, deeper breath.
It's like I'm not focusing on anything in particular but have a wider general field of awareness.

It feels like all that's left is to watch life unfold by itself, finally realizing I never even played a part in it, since I was it not playing a part in it.

Not sure if this is it. I feel very chilled and relaxed, like nothing could ever be wrong again somehow.

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:53 am

I think I see it now for real. It's very quiet and very happy, and thoughts just seem like sounds and chatter. It's very nice. It's like I don't see the separateness of duality but as soon as I think the thought "there is no separateness" I feel like I create seperateness artificially. Makes me just want to keep quiet.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:39 am

Lovely!

Yes, as soon as you think, the duality is back again. Or so it seems. :)
Let's look at the thinking process.
Is it you thinking or thoughts come up and go by themselves?
Do you know what the next thought will be before it arived?
Can you stop thinking for like half an hour?
Is there a thinker? Is voice in the head a thinker?
What is the voice in the head talking to and what is listening?
Can a thought do anything, if so what precisely?

Examine this closely and write what you find out.

Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:02 pm

Thoughts come up and go by themselves... Though there is an illusion of control sometimes.

No I don't know what my next thought will be before it arrives.

I can't stop thinking for half an hour... I think at most for a minute or two if I'm very inspired.

No thinker... The voice in my head is just more thoughts.

The voice is talking to itself I guess... Trying to hold up the illusion, to make itself real.

A thought has a certain feel to it I guess... It can represent states of being? I'm not sure I know what they really are, I know they are sounds in my head associated with images sometimes and a symbol that represents some other content... But I don't know how all this works.

I guess they are abstractions that point to things but are never the things themselves. I guess they are part of the truth since is non dual and everything is one thing... But it sure gets confusing with thoughts.

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:42 pm

Very good, thank you for looking!
In your own words, what illusion are you talking about? What is the self, how does belief in a separate self start?
Describe in detail how you see it

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:06 pm

What illusion... Hmm... I guess it's an illusion of an illusion of a separate self, since none of that exists really huh?

The self is really everything and that everything likes to believe it's a separate thing sometimes I think.

I think it starts when you are young and people refer to you as a separate entity and your organism starts interacting with the world and automatically starts making these projections of yourself and other.

I feel free now, like I can just go on doing whatever I want in a way... Without all this mental noise and mental gymnastics in trying to see the truth and connect with being and get enlightened.

Not sure it will last but I feel great right now :)

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Riker
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Riker » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:15 am

I'm drunk. But I love you... Thank you :)

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Ilona
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Re: Seeing the Truth

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:02 am

:) hope you are not tortured by bad hangover

Is there a you that can get enlightened?
How would that look like?

What is that is disconnected from being?
Find the sense of being, here now, this presence, being aware. Are you ever not aware? Is there ever not here now?
Do you need to do anything in order to be?
Can being (verb) be switched on and off at will? Do you need to try hard to survive? Or being is on by default?

Is it I that does being? Or being is effortless?

Write what you find out from these questions.

Sending love back.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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