self inquiry

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bobbyward
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self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:03 pm

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
seen some videos on youtube, seems like something that could be useful in advancing my path towards enlightenment.

What do you expect of the conversation on this forum?:
a dialogue back and forth, asking questions to contemplate and exercises to do to dissolve beliefs about reality.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I done transcendental meditation for about 8 months for an hour a day, my reason for doing this was to reduce suffering and have a general feeling of wellbeing. the past 6 months i have been doing self inquiry, about 2 hours a day formal practice, and then whenever i become conscious of thought throughout the day, my reason for doing this is seeking enlightenment to end suffering. also for the last year and a half i have been watching lots of videos online and reading lots of stuff about different types of meditation and enlightenment.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:37 pm

Hi Bobbyward,

welcome to LU forum. I am here for you.

we can work together. all i ask is that you stop watching videos and reading books for the time being and purely report from your own experience. full honesty is a must in this process. write what feels true. writing everyday is helpful too, so keep doing that, even if i don't answer.

so tell me, what are you looking for? what does word Enlightenment mean to you? what should change with achieving it? what do you expect from enlightenment?

bring all expectations here for examination.

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:05 pm

Hi Ilona,

thanks for the reply, sure yeah i can stop watching videos and reading the books.

I have been doing alot of self help stuff over the years and came across a guy on youtube talking about spiritual enlightenment, i have alot of social anxiety and mental fears and i guess what i am looking for is an end to that. enlightenment to me means experiencing life with no centre, not being identified with the body, emotions and thoughts. what i am expecting from enlightenment is a constant or near constant peace, happiness and to not be believing thoughts that cause suffering.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:31 pm

what i am expecting from enlightenment is a constant or near constant peace, happiness and to not be believing thoughts that cause suffering.
well, this, seeing no self is not a destination where you feel no more unwanted emotions and are in near constant peace. it's only a first step. an opening. not the end of the journey, not a door to happy ever after. all it is is seeing life with no filter of belief, that there is i in charge.

tell me, what comes up, when you let this thought in?
there is no self, no i, no separate entity at all, none as in zero. all there is is life flowing freely. there is no person in charge, no manager, no controler, no perceiver, no witness.

watch how this statement lands in the body, what sensations come up. write right away. what is hardest to let go?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:49 pm

well, this, seeing no self is not a destination where you feel no more unwanted emotions and are in near constant peace. it's only a first step. an opening. not the end of the journey, not a door to happy ever after. all it is is seeing life with no filter of belief, that there is i in charge.


I have heard before that there are different stages to enlightenment, but im thinking once the self in seen through it will be like a great weight has been lifted and alot of suffering will fall away.
tell me, what comes up, when you let this thought in?
there is no self, no i, no separate entity at all, none as in zero. all there is is life flowing freely. there is no person in charge, no manager, no controler, no perceiver, no witness.
watch how this statement lands in the body, what sensations come up. write right away. what is hardest to let go?
when i let this thought in i have a feeling of relief and a sense of ease because i dont feel responsible for the things im not happy with in my life, it takes away some regret as im thinking i couldnt have done things differently. but also i have a feeling of being deflated, because im thinking if theres nobody here that can control and change circumstances whats the point of it all.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:07 pm

when i let this thought in i have a feeling of relief and a sense of ease because i dont feel responsible for the things im not happy with in my life, it takes away some regret as im thinking i couldnt have done things differently. but also i have a feeling of being deflated, because im thinking if theres nobody here that can control and change circumstances whats the point of it all.
great, thank you. yes, what is the point of life?
now have a look, what is that needs that point to be?
does a bird need a point to sing it's song? does a flower need a point to open up to the sun?
does a human need a point to be what he is?
do you need a point? what if there is no point and there is not need for the point?

if feeling deflated is happening, then that is what is happening.


what would be lost if there really is no one here?


sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:30 pm

when i look into my experience it seems like it is thought that needs there to be a point to life.

I get what your saying about the birds and the flowers, humans are the only beings that need to see a point to life.

I dont think a human being necessarily needs a point to life, but i have a self image and have a strong urge to control and change my circumstances to improve that self image.

if there was no one here, im thinking life would become very impersonal and hope for better circumstances in the future or trying to control circumstances would go away.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:33 am

[quote][I dont think a human being necessarily needs a point to life, but i have a self image and have a strong urge to control and change my circumstances to improve that self image.
/quote]

An image is just that - a mind created image. What is the worst that can happen to it?

Try this experiement.
Imagine you are holding an apple in your hands. Visualise it with closed eyes, feel it as if it's real. Observe sensations. Notice the shape, texture, weight, temperature, keep the image in the mind as vivid as you can, you can almost smell it and taste it.

Then open your eyes and see what happens to the apple. Was it ever there? Did it get lost, destroyed, did it vanish?

Now compare the image of the Apple to the image of you. Is the image real? Is there a real person with a sense of self? Or it's too, imagined?


Write what you notice from this experiment.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:55 am

when i am visualising the apple and noticing the sensations related to it shape weight etc, it does have a vague sense of being real. each of the visuals and sensations i feel are thoughts, when i open my eyes and look at my hand the rug has been pulled from under this vague sense of the apple being real.

when i think of me, i think of a package of characteristics, traits and circumstances that would comprise my self image, each of these are labels from thought, both the apple and the image of me are labels from thought.

i was reading that gateless gatecrasher lastnight and i had a change in my experience, i feel an unfamiliar relaxation, i feel less interested in thoughts, and have less of a compulsion to do things. when i try to look for me it seems transparent, before it felt like there was a '' glue '' holding my body mind thoughts and sensations together, it feels like thats not there anymore. its a very simple shift in my perception, i had thoughts saying '' this is it '' and lots of other thoughts questioning if its genuine or if i do the wrong thing it will go away.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:57 pm

thank you, that was beautiful to read.. how are you feeling today?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:24 pm

I feel the same, its been like this since friday night. the whole thing just seems very strange, i have never felt like this before, an unfamiliar constant relaxation.

Im thinking this has to be this stream entry thing you guys talk about what else could it be, there are times when i examine my experience and i have no doubt that its stream entry, but other times im not so sure as thoughts are coming up constantly questioning it.

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 am

Wonderful..
Can you say, yes, it's clear, that I, the person, the separate entity is an illusion?
If no, what other questions do you have, what can we look at?

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:47 am

yes its a no self experience, i think its hard for the mind to except because its so simple.

I feel like a ghost, like theres no one home, but i feel good, like i havent got a care in the world. an interesting thing is i have been doing self inquiry religiously every day for 6 months, and the last 3 days i have had no interest in doing it.

is there any do's and dont's going forward with this, anything that can help or hinder the process ?

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Ilona
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Re: self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:10 am

Only thing that can help is just looking! Letting all that comes up be ok, trusting that all is unfolding as it should.
Looking back, what else has changed since we started this conversation? What looks different, what is the same?
Write more!

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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bobbyward
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Re: self inquiry

Postby bobbyward » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:09 am

I had an interesting experience lastnight, i have been feeling blissful the last few days, all of a sudden i felt sad and ill, i had to lie down, this lasted about an hour, after that the bliss was gone, that was a bummer.

what has changed i would say is, i feel alot more relaxed, less interested in thoughts, less of a compulsion to do things, not doing my daily self inquiry anymore. with the physical movements of my body there is just a witnessing of it, like nobody is making the body move it is just happening without a doer. with my sensations they are just free floating around not belonging to anyone, when i speak it feels like it is just happening with nobody behind it. when images come into my head they are just popping up from no were.

I still feel identified with the voice in my head, that labels things, that provides commentary on what is happening, that trys to solve problems and understand things, i feel like i am the author of this voice and i get lost in it.


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