Once and for all.

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:30 am

" How does it feel to see this?"

Its less desire to participate in most functions, a large part of human activity seems pointless, and ridiculous. Noticing everything is set up for complete distraction, and experience is whittled away in mental activity and unnecessary seeking, games and fairy tales.

"Do you notice any difference in ordinary everyday life?"

Less judgement perhaps, or noticing of judging and labeling as it happens, constant questioning of the program, thoughts and habitual things running but less importance placed on it, sometimes feeling intensely and playing it out even when its recognized for what it is, or isn't... Like not caring as much about hanging out with "my" kind of people. Example-- "My" kind of people are, (pick a label) meditators, spiritual, hippies, farmers, folk artists, vegans ect.

"What hasn't changed at all? "

Breathing, seeing, sensory touch, hearing, same thoughts floating by with no one to control them.. ha.. daily activities, same emotional triggers when hanging out with the family, same conversations with neighbors.
There are still questions , like is this it? no special event? Still acting like there's an I here..

"Is the seeking still on full or it's diminishing?"

Seeking is diminishing, some irritation, anger .. still thoughts like is this fully seen? fully experienced?


Write more, give us a rant.

Sending love[/quote]

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:38 am

Seeing this is just the beginning, maybe a lifelong unwinding, maybe uncondition-ing. No one to uncondition, no one to be conditioned, just a movie happening, action, thought, sounds..

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:40 am

The idea to write less was to avoid mental confusion lol... will write more tomorrow. Head is feverish.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:03 pm

From seeing and experience. Rain falls outside the glass behind the computer sitting on the wooden desk. Eyes seeing what can only be observed peripherally beyond the letters of the keyboard.
Typing. The feel of a strap digging into the sternum as the body leans forward. Pauses for breath. Burning in the but and thighs, and same in the feet. Feet cant be seen.. so just a burning feeling in the mental image of legs and feet.
All kinds of junk on this messy desk. Noticing that labels and judging objects is constant.. labeling, profiling.
Thoughts flowing, thoughts about those thoughts, thought changing direction to different stories, I am, I want, I don't like, My food, Me... thoughts happening. Being. Noticing resistance when thoughts that Joshua is not special, Your story is empty. Only now, no future no past , ever present existence being.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:08 pm

On those last three words, on one is present, no one exists. There is just being.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:19 am

This body is experiencing quite a bit of pain, in this moment. Legs burning, back aching, sore throat, aching face, warm, sweaty, tight achy arms and neck. Popping ears, and a slight fuzziness of thought, which seems to be between the ears just rolling out on this page as typing happens. This pain brings direct seeing and experiencing to the front, less distraction from mental construct habit stories. Even when thought and stories and habit are in the main focus, its all just happening to no one. The I is not there when it isn't passing through..

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:57 pm

Thank you for all the post, I can see how the process is going.
Physical symptoms are not unusual at this point. There may be burning sensations and all kind of energetic stuff going on. It will pass. Some call it "purging", it's like the body is getting rid of waste.

And as you say, this pain is bringing attention out of the head into raw sensing. All is well.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:54 pm

Thank you Ilona. <3

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:28 am

how are you feeling today?
is there anything showing up that we can look at together?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:40 pm

Much better. Thank you. Well, noticing that the programming asserts itself and often acting it out the same, though usually with recognition that no one is here, or at least a reminder when examining I and me thoughts. Still at moments feeling resistance or doubt thoughts that this is indeed the case. But whenever direct experience and seeing is done it is the same. No One to be found.
A kind of relaxing and accepting this slowly.. but a nagging that still hasn't fully gone and seems like an expectation for something more? Not sure if its all completely clear. Could this just be that seeking has been a habit for a long time.. seeking addiction lol

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Sometimes writing more isn't easy to conjure. I usually wait til something comes through the head, that seems to be how it happens and if I don't write it down almost immediately it can disappear. Trying to force it, i doesn't seem to work so well.. blocking happens, or whatever it could be called,and I look up from the keyboard and nothing comes. Just raw sensing takes over.

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:53 pm

Sometimes looking at other threads that are so articulate and detailed.. this comparison thing starts happening, then the thoughts is this good enough? Of course its just more of the same self identity program running, needing to please, or be validated.. No one to be any of that. A lot of the program running there is a dislike for and distaste. A desire to purge it. But no one to purge such a thing... just a shifting of perspective? Its also pretty hilarious at moments. Also seeing/feeling a resting, relaxing. Softening.
Thoughts appeared last night about mind getting lost in concepts, but was brought to attention that mind can't get lost. That would imply someone there to get lost..

Watching two year old nephew explore the world and how the same constructs are being learned. He has picked up the word I quite well, yet many rules, boundaries, expectations, ect are not yet fully imprinted.
Observing interaction in relationships here with my brother/caregiver and also my dad and younger siblings. There are 13 siblings. These relationships reflect all the conditioning back to "me".

Also in looking, sensing, there is a feeling of aliveness. Life being. If that is pointed to as someone it seems to be withing the boundaries of a body. But then noticing heart beating, lungs breathing, feeling running up and down the spine,nerves, blood pumping in the head, of course there will be a centralized feeling. No one there. Just aliveness. Also seeing the cat across from me being, hearing the bird and wind sounds being, objects all around being.. only an illusion of separation. Just This. as its often been repeated.

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:22 am

comparison only creates distortion and expectations. how can you compare what is happening for you with something that you read about what is happening for someone else?
Thoughts appeared last night about mind getting lost in concepts, but was brought to attention that mind can't get lost. That would imply someone there to get lost..
nice. yes, thoughts weave stories. and some stories are about getting lost in stories. hilarious really.
Also in looking, sensing, there is a feeling of aliveness. Life being. If that is pointed to as someone it seems to be withing the boundaries of a body. But then noticing heart beating, lungs breathing, feeling running up and down the spine,nerves, blood pumping in the head, of course there will be a centralized feeling. No one there. Just aliveness. Also seeing the cat across from me being, hearing the bird and wind sounds being, objects all around being.. only an illusion of separation. Just This. as its often been repeated.
beautiful. :)

can you say that it's clear that I, the separate self is an illusion?
are you ready for the final questions?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Joshua
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Joshua » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:08 pm

"comparison only creates distortion and expectations. how can you compare what is happening for you with something that you read about what is happening for someone else? "

Thank you for making that point. I can't compare . I can only relate to some of their content as it applies to the direct experience happening now with this body.


"can you say that it's clear that I, the separate self is an illusion?"

Yes absolutely It is clear. I the separate self is an insidious and powerful programmed illusion.
Feels a bit suffocating sometimes.

I'm ready for the final questions.

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Ilona
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Re: Once and for all.

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:19 pm

Yes, some descriptions resonate, other doesn't. What matters is what feels true to you.


Sweet! Here are the questions :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book


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