Looking for a Guide

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Bananafish
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Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:03 pm

Hi,

I've been doing zazen for almost five years and have been to a lot of retreats,
without getting a glimpse of my true nature.

I'm somewhat frustrated now, since my understanding of Zen or Non-dual teachings are merely intellectual, and it seems that I don't really understand them at all.

Can anyone be a guide for me to end the search for what I really am?

Thanks.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:57 pm

Hey there bananafish. It's a perfect day for you.

I'll be happy to help.

I now know a wee bit about your background, which is helpful. It seems you've zeroed in on the problem of intellectual only understanding. It is indeed frustrating!

But let's talk about that. Can you say more about why you think it's intellectual? What is it that you think you understand?

~~~~~~~

This is the part where I write the "details of participation".

Please write as often as you are able, but more importantly write only what's true for you, and only if it's 100% true for you.

I will at times ask things repeatedly, or in very simple language. If that happens, trust the process as it's meant to stop the intellectualizing an allow exploration of the experiential.

This is very simple. I cannot emphasize the simplicity enough, actually. Have you heard phrases like, "It's right here" or "It's so simple"? It's a good idea to take that very literally. Your instincts are good. Intellectual understanding is what moves the needle the wrong way on the dial. We're going to move it back to the simplest position possible.

I'm going to point to and hold you to the gate, and not let you waiver or wander. That's all I can do. The rest is up to you!

I think we'll do well. If you agree, let's begin.

sybil
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:20 pm

Hi Delma! I truly appreciate your help, and I agree to what you wrote in the previous post.
Can you say more about why you think it's intellectual? What is it that you think you understand?
The reason is that I don't actually feel like there is no separate self. I still feel that I am my body, separate from the things other than me.

One thing I understand is that thoughts don't belong to me, they are just the clouds that appear and disappear in the sky. I also understand that when I look for 'me', it can't be located anywhere.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:36 pm

Let's look at what you've written here. There are assumptions being made which are very fundamental and hard to pick up because they are the most ingrained habits imaginable.

"I still feel that I am my body"

That single sentence can be deconstructed to see this. Take a look at the first "I" in that sentence because it's entirely assumed to be there. After that, it's just a cascade of habitual thinking that occurs, like a fractal.

So, to examine the assumptions the statement should be turned into an inquiry.

What is it that feels?
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:39 pm

That single question puts you at the gate, by the way. We're already there. Take a look.
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:01 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Delma.
What is it that feels?
It's not that there's something there that feels, but it's more like there's just the feeling itself that there is the body.
I can't feel the thing that feels the feeling.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:11 pm

Perfect.

We now have a loop. If we look at the sentence construction, we can tease that apart too.

"I can't feel the thing that feels the feeling."

Intellectually, it can't be found. But what's the experience of looking for it. What happens when looking? What is there? The feeling and.... ? Is there both feeling and feeler?
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:13 pm

I know you did answer this, but I'm doing a deeper dive by having you look again. The question is more focused. :)
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:28 pm

What happens when looking? What is there? The feeling and.... ? Is there both feeling and feeler?
There is no feeler, just the feeling.
At the same time, there is a kind of doubt arising that I'm just making the above answer up.
I'm not 100% sure.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:11 pm

Please be 100% sure, no matter what the answer may be.

If there's doubt, keep holding the inquiry until certainty is arrived at.
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Hi Delma.

I'm now 100% sure that there is feeling and the attention to that feeling, instead of the feeler.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:44 pm

Thank you. And for your care in inquiring. :)

Let's stick with it for a moment. I think it's going well.

Can you point to the attention to the feeling? What is attention without feeling?

Delma
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:18 am

Thank you, Delma.
Can you point to the attention to the feeling? What is attention without feeling?
Attention is there where there is feeling.
Attention without feeling is what is everywhere,
or I might say at no particular place,
although attention is gathered to a particular
place to which it is attentive.

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Delma
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Delma » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:32 pm

Is the attention owned? If so, what owns it?
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".

Delma
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Bananafish
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Re: Looking for a Guide

Postby Bananafish » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:37 pm

No, there's no owner of attention.


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