Looking for a guide

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antara
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Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Hello,

I would love to have some quidance.

I have been on so called path for around 10 years. It started, when quite suddenly, when something opened and there was this expierence of immense love and deep peace for several weeks. After that I started intense search and did a lot of meditation therapy groups and meditations, what lead me to the seeing that, who I have thought I am is not real.

Somehow this seeing did not bring relaxation, but I have been in quite confused state ever since (It is going on for about 4 years).
My everyday life also went upside down after that – relationship ended, my work did not feel the same. I didnt really feel like myself anymore. Nothing really made sense, I lost interest in almost everything I was drawn before, also there was no interest in any kind of theraphy or meditation anymore. There were moments, where I felt that I am going crazy.

It feels like a grasping and trying to hold on to things….trying to live like before, trying to do the same things, but there is just this knowing that something does not fit.
There has been also very intense emotional states – fears, panic, sadness…and like a pressured feeling in the chest.

I have listened to satsang teachers and read books during these last years – Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster ect. , but I still feel that there is kind of fear and resistance to surrender totally. It feels like there is some part, which just does not want to believe that this is actually true, that I am not real….there are all these questions, like how to function in the world like this ( and it was kind of difficult and confusing for a period of time.)

It would be grate to get some quidance.
Thank you.

Antara

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:17 pm

Hi Antara. Joseph here. I can guide you.

Describe the illusion of self as you understand it now.

Joseph <3

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antara
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:09 pm

Hi Joseph,

Thank you so much for quiding me.

How I understand the illusory self at the moment – I can tell how it feels.

As I look for myself inside I cannot really find anything or nobody in particular and that is even kind of ok. I cannot find anything what would be solid or steady that I could call me…there is a seeing of how fast everything changes and that I cannot really grasp anything. Feeling of this has been there since I can remember myself.

At the same time I can notice a really intense wish to hold on to something, anything….as I am writing these lines there is an inner picture of the broken mirror…just peaces everywhere….and there is a wish to put it all somehow together. ..I can still see the movement of trying to put the story together. There is a seeing of that…and still the movement is happening.…I can see that there is a feeling, what I could call fear…and this trying to put it all together is causing this state of unease and tension…but I don’t really know how to stop that, or how to function without it.

I was staying with your question since yesterdays evening and there was moments where I could see that this is actually also a grate freedom…Freedom to be whatever is there…I don’t know if this is clear, but seeing that brought kind a relaxation…

Anyhow I woke up in the night and then there was this intense feeling of fear again. This has been happening quite a lot in these last years. When some kind of seeing happens, then the tension and fear is there again quite strongly…
I feel really exhausted from this swinging.

Antara

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Josephkoudelka
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:52 pm

Hi Antara. I hear you. Fear can be overwhelming at times. There are different ways for us to work with fear during this process. Ultimately there is no self, therefore all fear is a paper tiger or straw man of sorts. It derives its power through our belief in a separate self that can be destroyed. There is no you, no self. This isn't nihilist however, it is a complete embrace of life being whatever life is now. It is so huge that it is impossible to pin down and label. Dropping the pretense of a separate self is complete freedom to be. Nothing is hidden.

Before we can really get underway here, I have a few things I would like you to review and confirm you have seen. The guidelines below require your agreement for us to continue. Take your time and respond when you have completed.

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

http://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Guidelines for guiding process:

1. You agree to post at least once a day.

2. In general, the guide will ask the questions for you to respond to

3. Responses require your utmost honesty

4. Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-
winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

5. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

6. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

Additionally, there is a 'Subscribe to topic' button in bottom left corner of page on the purple bar, right next to 'Board Index' button. If you click it, you will be subscribed to this thread and receive an email everytime I post a response.

I look forward to our journey together.

Joseph ♥︎

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antara
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Thank you.
I agree to conditions mentioned and i am ready to start.
Ultimately there is no self, therefore all fear is a paper tiger or straw man of sorts. It derives its power through our belief in a separate self that can be destroyed.
Thank you for the pointers. There has been momentary seeings that the fear comes from that belief, but anyhow its there...appearing out of nowhere in the middle of the night...and as I said there is this trying to keep it all together somehow... I will be happy to look deeper into that.


Antara

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:36 pm

Seeing no self is actually very simple. It is the recognition that a separate and distinct self cannot be found in our direct experience of this moment, now. All the self is is a series of self referencing thoughts. A self seems to created when we believe the content of thoughts, that claim it is the self, or that is the self. In direct experience a self can never be found. If a thing is real, and has actual existence, it should be findable in our direct experience. I should be able to pinpoint it to something that is permanent, and always available, now.

The biggest obstacle to seeing that there is no self, are the expectations we bring into the exploration to find or not find a self. This exploration does not lead to a complete and final state of enlightenment as described or imagined by other books or testimonies we have read. When no self is found, life remains exactly as we experience now. It is completely ordinary, and yet, this ordinariness can also be a relief after long years in the wilderness of seeking enlightenment. It is liberation from the notion of being a separate self.

The other thing that is discovered s that we have no control whatsoever over thoughts and what they may claim. We discover that choice is an illusion. If I am not a self, who could be having thoughts? Thoughts can take their rightful place among the wind, and stars, and the vast universes ever changing phenomena. They are just another momentary manifestation of life happening now, completely free and independent of what any thing like a thought. When you woke up this morning, was life already on, doing its thing? Or was it waiting for you to tell it how it should be? Like the wind or waves upon the ocean, it is living out the eternal present now, free of any restriction that a mind might desire.

Please tell me what expectations you have now. What are you hoping we will different when this exploration is over?

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:14 pm

When I tried to find an answer to your question there was a sudden silence. It is good to look, what i want from this. In last four years, I am not sure what I am looking for anymore really. As I wrote before, the pull to meditation and therapies was just gone I was in this confused state...even the word enlightement has lost its meaning to me.

Now I can say that there is a longing for Peace. I like your words about the relief after long years seeking enlightement. This longing for peace have been in me even before I started to consiously search and new what is meditation and enlightement. All my life have been felt like a ongoing struggle...in meditation I could find moments of peace, but as the expierences they came and went...and then the exsaustion from this seeking was really strong.

Somehow this page came in to my reality and i felt a pull to write...and I am very grateful for the space, what is created here.
When no self is found, life remains exactly as we experience now. It is completely ordinary, and yet, this ordinariness can also be a relief after long years in the wilderness of seeking enlightenment. It is liberation from the notion of being a separate self.
Its very, very ok for me to feel the ordinarines...just a peaceful walk, just a breeze of wind...

As I wrote before, there is this constant feeling of contraction in my chest, of course it would be grate just feel the free space there...
but somehow I feel quite opend to the process what is offered here.

Thank you.
Antara

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:26 am

Now I can say that there is a longing for Peace. I like your words about the relief after long years seeking enlightement. This longing for peace have been in me even before I started to consiously search and new what is meditation and enlightement.
We all want peace.
I have listened to satsang teachers and read books during these last years – Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster ect. , but I still feel that there is kind of fear and resistance to surrender totally. It feels like there is some part, which just does not want to believe that this is actually true, that I am not real….
We will start here - "...I still feel that there is kind of fear and resistance to surrender totally."

Key to seeing through the illusion of self is to look from the standpoint of Direct Experience. When we look, we look now. Not at what the mind or thought says about the now, but what is happening now. DIrect Experience is the actual moment to moment sensations and direct perceptions prior to thought labeling these events. For example, in this moment there is hearing tap, tap, tapping, of the keyboard as black letters scroll out across the white space of this post. If I were to look directly at my experience of fear, I would be experiencing a pounding sensation in the area called chest, as i look for the boundary of chest and pounding heart, i cannot find a chest boundary actually, just pounding, boomp, boomp, boomp... racing thoughts are also experienced. Normally we focus on the content of the racing thoughts which will be telling some story, a familiar one about how and why there is fear and so on. In direct experience we drop that narrative and just experience what is actually happening. In this example of fear, there is no Joseph, just an energetic flush of boomp, boomp, boomp and racing thoughts, a tightening feeling perhaps in the are of the chest. This is how we look in direct experience.

Surrender is the easiest thing, it is simply being present to what IS, here and now. Nothing else is required.

In direct experience, describe fear and resistance to this moment as it is.

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antara
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:29 pm

In direct experience, describe fear and resistance to this moment as it is.

I can feel the body sitting on the chair. Feeling the fingers on the keyboard. Sound of the computer….the body is breathing… there is a tightness and heaviness in the chest area…But if I am sitting like this and not giving any names to it all that it is, its just a sensation…and at this moment it is not even so strong…and after time beeing like this there is also kind of okeyness with that. When I am looking like this it does not disturbe or there is no feeling that it is something I have to get rid off…

Resistance is felt like a sick and tight feeling in the area of solar plexus…Now I can see very clearly that it is linked to the thought process. Like a wire. Without that there is just this space…just a movement.. moving in the room is happening…eating the food is happening…just a movement is happening…and kind of curioustity is there suddenly. Like wow, whats that…what that tastes like...!

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:47 am

Now I can see very clearly that it is linked to the thought process. Like a wire. Without that there is just this space…just a movement.. moving in the room is happening…eating the food is happening…just a movement is happening…and kind of curioustity is there suddenly. Like wow, whats that…what that tastes like...!
Yes. It is like this, eating, moving, sensations in space. Even thoughts appearing in this space. Thoughts are ok. In a way a thought is just one more sensation. The only time the space begins to feel constricted is when we pay attention only to the thoughts and their content, or storyline. Just because a thought claims something does not make it real. Real is tasting, hearing, seeing, smelling... even thinking - just not necessarily the content of the thinking. Especially when it comes to a self.

We are going to look at the sensations of the body now in the same way as we did before. We will look at the direct experience of the body. Wherever you are now, close your eyes and experience the body as it is. Do not listen to what thought says about the sensations. Be the silent witness of the sensations and describe what you find in direct experience.

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antara
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:53 pm

Thank you very much for your response.

I am here, just have a little time today to be at the computer. I want to take more time to explore, so i will write an answer tomorrow.

Antara

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:54 pm

ok

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antara
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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby antara » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:05 pm

Hi Joseph,

I just wanted to share a little more, what was discovered on the previous inquiry. As I were sitting there continuing my meal a sudden wave of gratitude came....and then it occurred that when the moment is lived fully, when there is full presence then all there is is just gratitude...its not gratitude for something what I have or what is happening, its just there no matter what sensations, feelings or events are expierenced at the current moment....simple thing as just sitting there, chewing the salad and nothing more...And this is what gets bypassed so often... in trying to fix something, find something...do something...


And now to the -
Wherever you are now, close your eyes and experience the body as it is. Do not listen to what thought says about the sensations. Be the silent witness of the sensations and describe what you find in direct experience.
-

I can feel the movement in the palms....feeling the breathing happening...can feel the bum sitting on the chair. There are body parts which are felt quite dense and there are parts, which are not persieved with any weight. There is tightness in the chest....time to time there are small sensations of pain in the body. hearing of the sounds...If i sit like this and dont see it i cannot call it even a body or my body. It feels like just moving sensations...after a while it gets kind of overwhelming and then it is just a very alive feeling...
I been feeling those parts where is kind of a small pain, other body just like disapears in the space...it all becomes like one space...the sounds, movements sensations....There are also pictures from my childhood appearing...after a while sitting like this...just noticing the movements and feeling the breath...I really dont feel any difference between the body and the ear...there was a moment when i felt a pull to just raise my arm and touch if its still there...:)

Thank you,
Antara

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:45 pm

apologies for the late post... been having internet issues this past week where I live.
If i sit like this and dont see it i cannot call it even a body or my body. It feels like just moving sensations...after a while it gets kind of overwhelming and then it is just a very alive feeling...
I been feeling those parts where is kind of a small pain, other body just like disapears in the space...it all becomes like one space...the sounds, movements sensations....There are also pictures from my childhood appearing...after a while sitting like this...just noticing the movements and feeling the breath...I really dont feel any difference between the body and the ear...there was a moment when i felt a pull to just raise my arm and touch if its still there...:)
Yes, when we look directly at our sensory experience, and drop the narrative created by thought, a body cannot be found. Of course, seeing displays a form that we label body, but if we continue to look, and drop all labels, the form cannot be found separate from the entire environment it appears in.

Look again, this time do so with eyes opened for a bit, then eyes closed. Listen to a sound that is repeatable, like a chime or bell, often one can be found on a phone if you do not have an actual chime or bell... So, while listening, also open up to feeling the 'physical' sensations of the body at the same time. Again try it with eyes open and closed. Dropping the narrative of thought, is there actually any separation or location to be found between the sound and the sensations of the body?

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Re: Looking for a guide

Postby Josephkoudelka » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:50 pm

Regarding gratitude - it just might be how the ananda, or bliss component, of sat-cit-ananda is experienced. :)

Joseph ♥︎


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