Thread for Klaus Zero

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Vivien
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Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:10 pm

Dear Klaus,

This thread is for you.
I am happy to assist in exploring 'no-self', though I can only point the way. You have to 'see' it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides, not teachers.

You and I will simply have a conversation, the aim of which will be for you to make the realisation that there is no 'self'. That will be our focus. I will tend to ask various questions and set you some exercises, but nobody will be judging you. You can't get this wrong.

But before we start, let’s get through the formalities first:
If you haven't already seen it, there is introductory info here, the disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

A few ground rules:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer only from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

A few technical support:

- You can reply to this thread by pushing the purple-orange coloured button 'Post Reply" at the left bottom of this page.
- You can learn to use the quote function, instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
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If you are happy to agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process.

What are your expectations for seeing through the illusion of the self?
How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?

Please answer these questions in great detail. No expectation is too small to ignore.

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:35 pm

What are your expectations for seeing through the illusion of the self?
How will Life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?

My expectations: I cannot describe very well, but I try, I think I have expiereced beeing nothing, the first time I was talking in Facebook with Machiel from Holland, wich I love very much and after that a few days later I found you side and have read your texts in Facebook. The last 17 years I have had a lot of experiences, very deep with Muktananda and Mother Meera and Gangaji and Mooji. My expectation is not that clear sseing will bring a comfortable life, or a Explosion of sat chit ananada what I meant the years before, but I think it will slow down a Little bit.

How will life Change.
Life goes on and will not Change

How will I Change?
I will not change. the I never changes, I (klaus the non existent beeing) suffers because beyond my nothingness I am alkoholic, I suffer sometimes because I have lost my woman, she could not live with my alkoholism and I had to go, How will I Change. I think That I will accept more.

What will be different?
the difference is that I will not feel guilty like I do at the Moment, I will not think that I am the problem.

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:51 pm

when I am in contact with teachings I am another one. Sometimes I am sead about, that my Brothers and sister cannot accept my searching, this does not help you, that makes you crazy and so on, I know, that I have to go trough, I have had a very good friend, Gerald Penz and he was a very wise man, a psychotherapist from Austria. His Brothers where White and his parents also but he had brwon Skin, he was very devoted to Amma, Meera and Laotse, to Nisargadatta. If you look at a photo of Mahatma Ghandi you see his face. He was my teacher. And my Friend. Sometimes he had questions and he asked me, and I answered and said how can you ask me? you are the teacher I cannot answer and the he said: I just wanted to have an answer of a Boddhisattva. So I answered sometimes. One day he asked me (we were going to a tibetian Stupa near our house) tell me what is Mahatma Ghandi and I told him that it is just an identification, it has no meaning, just identification! At the personal Level I love Mahatma Ghandi but at the highest Level there is no Mahamtma Ghandi. I can describe this just in this Moment, in the next Moment I fall back into personal Identity.

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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:09 pm

I love sometimes and sometimes I am just depressed over the whole things that go on in the world, I do not accept Banks, Financial Systems, Hurt, War, I feel missunderstood, not beeing understood in any way, i feel sad, self.pitty,
I write all this things that you can imagine what is going on, but I am shure that you can. I do not expect help over all this themes, I thin the help will come from my inner self.

Sometimes I decline all the Feelings that seem so strong and it seems that I have no other way than to drink Alkohol (in other Terms, I hate was is going on, with me and others). I hope to come out now. Gerald sometimes said, the pain will bring you to the target. And he was wright. The pain brought me here. And here I AM and now it is yours, or gods, or whomever, I dont like anymore.

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:15 pm

I know that some of the students of this side, most of them who are rooted deeply in the mind write a lot, I hope that I have not waisted your time, but I think it is better to express what is really going on. I thank you very much for what you are and your clarity I could sense in the Facebook site.

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Vivien
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:29 am

Dear Klaus,

Thank you for your reply. Have you had a chance to look around on the Liberation Unleashed site and what all this guiding about?
It seems to me from what you wrote that you are looking for a teacher that you could learn from. Is this the case?

Here on LU we are not teachers, we cannot teach anything. We are only guiding to help where to LOOK, but you have to look for yourself.

It is like learning to ride a bike. No matter how many books you read or how much you think about it, no matter how many cyclists you interview about how to bike, as long as you don’t sit on a bike and do it for yourself you’ll never be able to ride a bike.

So we don’t discuss or follow any teachings.
If you would engage in this exploration, then I would like to ask you to put aside any previous teaching and intellectual knowledge. So, when I ask you questions then I ask you to investigate your actual experience and come back with your ‘truest’ response.

What we would do here, is that I set you some exercises, physical ones, in which I will ask you to describe the experience of the senses. We call this Direct Experience, or the Uninterpreted Moment. This refers to the data from the sensations themselves, before mind tries to make sense of it and begins to describe what is happening. Observing with the five senses — seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching/feeling. These exercises can help to see what is ‘real’ and what is not.
I think I have expiereced beeing nothing, the first time I was talking in Facebook with Machiel from Holland,
I cannot help you with experiencing being nothing. What I can offer you is to point you where to LOOK to see that there has never been a ‘you’ that could control or govern life or experience being nothing.
Is this what you are after?
when I am in contact with teachings I am another one.
I cannot offer you any teachings. Quite the contrary! I would ask you to let go off ALL teachings and pay attention only to your actual, direct experience, to the 5 senses (seeing, hearing, toughing/feeling, tasting, smelling).

What I can point to is to see, that there is no ‘you’ that could be in contact with any teachings, so ‘you’ cannot be another one.
Is this what you are looking for?

Have you read the disclaimer?
If not, then please do. Here is the link:
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/


Here is a list what liberation and the guiding process are NOT about:
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.

This is about ONLY to see that there has never been a self, a ‘you’ that could control or govern life or anything.

Do you feel ready to put aside all previous teachings?
Do you feel ready to do the exercises and report only from your direct experience?

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Dear Vivien, I am not a spirtual Tourist and I prefer truth not more concepts or mor teachings.
I am open to do all exercise that are given. I do not search a new teacher.
you are wright I am no other one when I am in Kontact with the teachings ...that is impossible and untrue. Also it is untrue that the I the sence of personal doership has been in contact of nothingness. That is also impossible.
I feel ready to do the exercises. I will put aside all the old teachings but I cannot ashure what the next thaught will be, thoughts come unasked.

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Thank you Vivien for working with me.
Klaus

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Vivien
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:54 am

Dear Klaus,

Have you had a chance to read our disclaimer?
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

I’ve coped here some parts of it for you:

- "if you are already mentally or emotionally fragile" and/or
- "If you are currently relying on a prescription or self-prescribed substance to regulate your mood or your sanity, we strongly suggest you not enter into this process."


You mentioned that you are an alcoholic, so I talked about this with other guides.

It seems that your searching for the ‘truth’ is fueled by the desire for getting rid of alcoholism. But unfortunately, this cannot work. First, you have to quit drinking, and after several month of sobriety when both the body and the mind cleared up, there is the opportunity for clear seeing.

Probably this is not what you want to hear, but I have to be honest with you. Alcoholism is an addiction, and instead of trying to work and solve this addiction, you want to cover it up with another addiction, seeking the ‘truth’.

So you expect seeing no-self to make you sober and stop drinking. But this cannot work. First, you have to stop drinking. This cannot be the other way around.

So, you have to find the way for stopping drinking. Byron Katie’s Work might help you. You can find a lots of YouTube videos on how The Work is done. (Many of her books are translated into German)
Here is her website: http://www.byronkatie.com/

If you quitted drinking, and several month of sobriety had passed, I am happy to guide you to see through the illusion of the self.

I wish you all the best on your journey.

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:06 am

Dear Vivien,
I haven been clean 4 months, but now I am drinking since one month. I know Byron Katies "The Work" very well, and will do it. (funny the non existing I will not do it, but I hope it will happen soon! Yesderday I was on an online event from Scott Kilobys Natural Rest for addicction)

Love Klaus

PS: I will write you again when I am through. Thank you.

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:03 am

Dear Vivien,

I wanted to be open. For that reason I wrote about the alkoholism. I also understand that there was no possibility to not write, what I have writtenI. Is it possible that you give a new username to this thread. I think KK would be good?

Love Klaus

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Vivien
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:10 am

Dear Klaus,
Yesderday I was on an online event from Scott Kilobys Natural Rest for addicction)
Oh yes, Scott Kiloby is very good too. I hope it can help.

Feel free to contact me when you are through.
Is it possible that you give a new username to this thread. I think KK would be good?
I cannot change the name of the thread or the username, however I can talk to the admins of the forum to help with it. I'll let you know about the result.

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Vivien
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:58 am

Dear Klaus,

Your username can be changed, but KK is too short and it is not accepted by the system. So could you figure out a longer one?

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Klaus Zero
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Klaus Zero » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Dear Vivien,
thank you for helping to change the username. I think Klaus Zero could go?

I will not write daily now, that makes no sence I think, so the tread will be open I hope until I come back?
I do not have the same fear than you. But I understand your Motivation your acting. I can see that I entered into a spiritual search because I was unhappy, because I could not find real goals in the world, and I adopted a Goal in Spirituall Enlightenment and thought ...then all pain will be over...but also the spiritual search was only a Happening, like gras growing, wind blowing, sea mooving...everything just happens I think and also I was Identified and tried to find a way out there never existed a me - a Person - although it seemed so very Long time...

with great respect and love Klaus

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Vivien
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Re: Thread for Klaus Zero

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:37 pm

Dear Klaus,

Your username will be changed in a few hours.
will not write daily now, that makes no sense I think, so the tread will be open I hope until I come back?
I’m not sure whether the thread will be open when you come back, maybe it will be locked, I don’t know. However, you could send me a private message and we can open a new thread again.

Love, Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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