Seeking for a guide

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Sayah
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Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:12 pm

Hello!

I am seeking a guide to "see through". And sorry for my english, it's not my mother language..
I've been meditateing for 6 years now and done several "spiritual courses" and hundreds of books, and I'm getting really tired of seeking, searching, trying... to find the truth. I have experienced the "non-duality" several times, during meditation, after it or just in the middle of regural tasks. But it won't last. And again and again I identify with my thoughts and therefor feelings, and it really gets on my nervs..
Right now feeling a lot of excitement and nervousness about this!
Thank you for helping!!

Love, Sayah

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:58 am

Hello Sayah,

my name is Vivien, wonderful to have you here and it would be a pleasure to guide you.

But before we start, let’s get through the formalities first:
If you haven't already seen it, there is introductory info here, the disclaimer and a short video too.
http://www.liberationunleashed.com/

A few ground rules:
1. Post at least once a day, if you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.
2. Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.
3. Answer only from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Longwinded
analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation.
Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and
essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.
5. Please learn to use the quote function; instructions are located in the link below this line:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
6. Please click the 'subscribe topic' link at the very bottom of the page to ensure you get an email whenever a reply comes in.

Understand that I will be guiding you, rather than teaching you, and the more you put into this process the more you will get out of it.

If you are happy to agree to the above and have me your guide, we can start the process. (by the way, English is not my first language either)


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:40 am

Hey Vivien, thank you for guiding me! I have read the rules and it's all understood and agreed. I have also read the Gateless Gatecrashers, so I know a little bit of this process..
I'm ready!

Sayah

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:18 am

Hi Sayah,

OK, then let’s start it.

What are your expectations from this process?

If I say to you that here is no self / 'me' / 'I' behind any of our thoughts, feelings or actions, nor there has ever been – what comes up?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:04 pm

My expectations are that I would finally see the reality as it is, experience it like "watcher", watching the thoughts and feelings passing by, not identyfying them anymore. Be free! I think everything would be the same, but less anxiey or stress, cos "I" could see that there is no "I" behind thouhts. But it's so hard!

At this very moment it feels weird, and unbelievlble that there is no I. The feeling of I is soooo strong. Where does these thoughts come? That voice in my head just keeps on going.. i listen to that, like there are two voices..one that is just going on and on and the other one, who is observing and "judging" whether my thoughts are good or bad, or stupid or wise..and I'm soooo tired of observing myself! My thoughts! I go crazy! And I cant get behind.

That there is no I.. i kind of feel it, when my mind gets quiet..like after meditation...that there is just seeing, or touching.. but then the voice in my head starts the show and loose it.

It feels actually now quite reliefing that there is no I. And makes me smile. Can't wait to see the truth!

Sayah

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:49 am

Hi Sayah,
My expectations are that I would finally see the reality as it is, experience it like "watcher", watching the thoughts and feelings passing by, not identyfying them anymore.
This supposes that there is a watcher (subject) and the observed thoughts (object). But in ‘reality’ (in direct experience) there is no watcher. There is only watching, without an owner that could watch anything.
At this very moment it feels weird, and unbelievlble that there is no I.
It cannot be grasped by thinking. It can only be experienced.
That there is no I.. i kind of feel it, when my mind gets quiet..like after meditation...that there is just seeing, or touching.. but then the voice in my head starts the show and loose it.
It seems as if there is a belief that not having thoughts with an ‘I’ in it – is the seeing through the illusion of the self. But it is not.

Is there an expectation to stop thinking? Or think only when I want?

What ‘you’ experience in meditation is an altered state; a state where thought processes lessens. But no states are permanent. Seeing through the illusion of the ‘I’ is not about having a constant meditation state, or any kind of states. It is simply about seeing that there is and has never been a self at all. There are no altered states involved.
Where does these thoughts come? That voice in my head just keeps on going.. i listen to that, like there are two voices..one that is just going on and on and the other one, who is observing and "judging" whether my thoughts are good or bad, or stupid or wise..and I'm soooo tired of observing myself! My thoughts! I go crazy!
Thoughts almost constantly labels whatever arises in this moment. “This is stupid” or “I did it right” or “I go crazy!” – are just mental labels.

Are there really two voices? Or just thoughts suggest this?
Can a thought observe other thought? Can a thought observe anything?

And here is a little exercise. Sit for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Where are they coming from?
Where are they going?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you push away any thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:35 am

Yes, i understand that i cant stop thinkinh. Thoughts just come and go. I really cant stop them, or controll them. I tried, but it is impossible. I can not also predict them or push it away..it only gets stronger, if i try to think only positive, then thete is immediete thought of opposite..
thoughts i guess comes from subconscious and hell no, i can not know whats going on there. I realized that thre is not an observer, that too is only a thought! Its all thought after thought! But its cleaver, it makes you feel that, you are on to something..my mind wants so bad to see the trurth, that thoughts are in the game too. And realized, that i have this belief that when you see the truth, the labeling kinda stops..and i loose controll, or i deseppear or somehow start behaveing like a grazy person.
I was just watching a lady walking on the street. Without labeling, and its impossible. The labelling just happens ALL the time. Its so tricky right now..like how can you see there is no you, without thinking of it? If it can not be seen or realize by your mind, then how?
Thanks Viven!!

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:15 am

Hi Sayah,
Thoughts just come and go. I really cant stop them, or controll them. I tried, but it is impossible. I can not also predict them or push it away..
Yes. Good observations.
I realized that thre is not an observer, that too is only a thought! Its all thought after thought!
Very good.
And realized, that i have this belief that when you see the truth, the labeling kinda stops..and i loose controll, or i deseppear or somehow start behaveing like a grazy person.
Good to notice expectations and fears.

What is a belief?
You’ve seen that the observer is just a thought. Is it possible that these are also just thoughts?
Don’t think about the answer, rather LOOK.
how can you see there is no you, without thinking of it? If it can not be seen or realize by your mind, then how?
Similarly, as it was seen that the observer is just another thought. By LOOKING. Looking what is real in direct experience (DE), what can be found here and now, in this moment without the mental commentary about what is. It doesn’t mean that the commentary will stop or should stop. Just look behind the mental narrative.

Put an object (apple, laptop, whatever) to the table in front of you. Or just observe people as you did with the lady. But this time, ignore the labels that come up.
What is left?
What is ‘behind’ the mental narrative?
What is in direct experience?

Please tell me in your own words - What does the word ‘I’ refer to?
Where this ‘I’ can be found?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:15 pm

I forgot to tell you before, that yesterday, after i responded to you, i felt sudden enormous joy! Im in the middle of break-up with my boyfriend and that too, i didnt feel sadness or other "bad feelings", just such a big joy and love for him and for everything. For a moment, i didnt see this break up bad or good thing, just a thing that happens. Wow! But it lasted like 15 minutes :). But today i feel different..kinda more light..or something.

now the unswers. I've been looking my room and ignoring the labeling. Funny things appear; my body relaxes, when just looking my things..my breathing deepens, all the way to stomach and all tensions of my body relaxes..also my right knee starts to "shake"..it does that often, when im very present! When i read the gateless gatecrachers, it was shakeing a lot. Hah. That is a funny strange thing. I also feel kinda warm. And felt that even if my room is such a mess now, sudfenly everything looked suddenly so beautiful, that even though its a mess, everything was just in the right place!

Also have these sudden enourmous joys comeing! And going away too, the feeling arises, when i just look and ignore the labelling..go behind. Seems like there is nothing behind. Silence.

The I refers to my thoughts, this body, clothes, my home...but still, I cant live in clothes or I cant live in this house. Its just a thought. .but still feels like there is I. Even though i realize its just a thought. The mental narrative is so strong..that"I" is sitting here, or "I" is typeing this text.. the feeling of I is strong. If I think of I, memories arises and all that stuff what happend to "me".

I also have sudden feelings when i watch my body, that who's body is this? Who owns these fingers or knees? And this body seems strange..that it is just a body and have no attachments to it.

Well, this is what i got this time.

thank you!!
e!

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:59 am

Hi Sayah,
For a moment, i didnt see this break up bad or good thing, just a thing that happens.
Yes. ‘Reality’ is neutral. Only thought-labels and stories suggest otherwise.
Also have these sudden enourmous joys comeing! And going away too, the feeling arises, when i just look and ignore the labelling..go behind. Seems like there is nothing behind. Silence.
Yes. Feelings arise and subside, joy or sadness come and go. Nothing is permanent.
I also have sudden feelings when i watch my body, that who's body is this? Who owns these fingers or knees? And this body seems strange..that it is just a body and have no attachments to it.
This is a good starting point.

Now we try to find the ‘owner’ of the body.
We are LOOKing for a real ‘I’. Real is something that can be found.

But at first, as an example, let’s try to find Darth Vader from Star Wars.
We’re looking for a real Darth Vader that can be found.
In order to prove that it exists, we have to experience it directly by seeing, hearing, touching, smelling.
The image projected to the cinema screen is not it.
The poster on the wall about Darth Vader is not it.
The memory in ‘my head’ about Darth Vader is not a proof of its existence.
A thought suggesting that “he may be exist somewhere in the galaxy” is just an idea, but not a proof of it.
A lego figure of Darth Vader is not a real Darth Vader.
A life size wax figure exhibited in a museum is not it.
A twelve-year old boy dressed in a Darth Vader costume is not it.

Now, try to find the ‘I’ that supposedly owns the body. Look everywhere. Search every corner of the body, memories, feelings, thoughts, or any other places. Don’t leave any stones unturned. Where is the 'I'?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:29 am

Yep. I see now more clearly, that "I" is actually just a thought. Strong thought. The memories aren't real at THIS moment. It's just a thought too! I look at this body and realized: hair grows, without "I", breathing happens without "I"..etc.

This body is real, feelings in this body are real and thoughts...I dont know..feels like they just mess everything up, the real experience doesnt fully happen, because the mental narrative bull shit ruins it all the time.

If "I" think of I, it's kinda hard..seems it deseppear. .in many levels I understand that it's just a thought, but it's sooooo hard to LOOK behind..it takes so much concentration! And then my restless mind gets "in between".

This morning, i see, its so hard to concentrate...ugh. and the frustrations comes.. that "i will never figure this out...". Well, that also is just another thought. Its quite comforting to see more clearly, they are only thoughts..

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:39 am

Hi Sayah,
I see now more clearly, that "I" is actually just a thought. Strong thought. The memories aren't real at THIS moment. It's just a thought too!
Yes, very good LOOKing.

Do ‘strong’ thoughts exist, or - ‘I’ is a strong thought - is just another thought?
Can a thought have any attributes (strong or weak)?

Yes, memories aren’t real at this moment, because they’re just thoughts appearing now.
Is there any moment when memories are real?
Is there anything outside this moment?
This body is real, feelings in this body are real and thoughts...I dont know..feels like they just mess everything up, the real experience doesnt fully happen, because the mental narrative bull shit ruins it all the time.
Can a thought mess with anything?
Can a mental narrative ruin anything?
Can a thought do anything?

In direct experience, there are seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling and noticing thoughts.
Can the current experience not fully happen because of mental narratives?
Or the mental narrative is also part of the current experience?
Can the current experience not fully happen, ever?

An appearing thought is real, but never its content. Is this true? Find it out.

Take your time with the answers. Examine each question one-by-one.

Love
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:39 am

Hey Vivien!

Sorry I cant somehow use the quote, so i answer without it..

I saw wonderful dream last night. I saw very clearly this whole thing. How thoughts were just thoughts and how there no "I" just thoughts of "I". That all my life I've been listening to that voice, tjonking its content is real. It was so clear! They are only thoughts! !

Well, this morning it doesent feel that clear, but still, process is indeed started!!

Now, to the answers. No thoughts can have no attributes. Like strong or weak or positive or negative. They are thoughts too! It kinda feels they have, but they dont. Because it's only thought after thought. Like if Im thinking something negative and become aware of that and try to think positive, they are ALL just thoughts!

Memories can never be real, because they are just thoughts too. I was thinking that maybe if someone had a traumatic experience in the past, like near drowning in the lake and then he when he sees lake, is very frightnend, so maybe that memory comes from subconscious level to remind the present moment.. ? Well, okey maybe I got it now: the memory at that moment isn't real, the feeling of fear is. Yes okey, memories can never be real!

Nothing is outside of this moment. The mental narrative belongs this moment too. I think you your mind can travel to the past or future, speculate all kinda stuff..but your body is always at tjis moment. Breathing, smelling, seeing.. actually thereCAN'T be anything out side of this moment. This is it, life is happening only moment by moment. Our mind just travels easily dreaming or worrying or whatever...

Can a thought ruin or mess anything? I guess not. Well, usually there's first a thought that becomes words and then actions. I guess that's why there is a saying: Be careful what you think of. So in that way, if you are not aware of your thoughts, you end behaveing in certain ways, in certain situations. I think you can "change the way you think" ..i did thet for a while (noticed that my thoughts are quite negative towards myself) so I said to myself every morning "you are good enough just the way you are" and it started to work out. Felt better etc. So thoughts effect your emotions and that way, can ruin your day, if you blindely listen to that as a truth. But on the other hand I get it..like thought can never ruin anything, that's a thought too! It's ALL just thoughts! !! Like I saw ladt night's dream.It is a little complicated in my head right now...

same thing, thought cant do anything. If it think it can, that's another thought too.

Mental narrative is also part of the current experience. I think every moment is as it is, DESPITE of the mental narrative. Life happens as it happens, moment by moment and whether you worry or dream your whole life, current experience still fully happens ALL the time.

This last question was very good and opened "the door" a bit more! That current thought is real but it's content not. So true!! Thoughts are full of ridiciously stupid stuff, hah! That has nothing to do with REALITY. Its so hard sometimes to be aware of this and then "you" just listen to that crap.. OR actually that "you"is a thought too! Damn, that dream was good last night! I'm starting to ser..wow..it's ALL just thoughts! !!! This is wild..

But have to ask you something: i did this test in my mind; singing certain song, or shout in my mind or curse...and did it. So who is it, who makes these decisions? "I" made this decision and did it. Mind and thoughts did what "I" wanted. Who or what is that, who wants to drink the tea or go out or draw.. am I just a automatic thing that does what ever LIFE wants "me" to do? The mind just thinks this "I" is in controll of everything? This is so hard to understand. .

Well, thank you again Vivien!!!!

Love, Sayah

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Vivien
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Vivien » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:21 pm

Hi Sayah,
Sorry I cant somehow use the quote, so i answer without it..
If you post not by pressing the ‘Quick Reply’ but with ‘Post Reply” (purple-orange button in the left corner of the bottom of the page) then under the text box all the previous posts will appear. Select the lines you’d like to quote, press the quote button, and it’ll be automatically put into the text box.
I saw wonderful dream last night. I saw very clearly this whole thing. How thoughts were just thoughts and how there no "I" just thoughts of "I".
Beautiful. Sometimes seeing continues into dreams.
No thoughts can have no attributes. Like strong or weak or positive or negative. They are thoughts too! It kinda feels they have, but they dont.
Exactly. What makes feel that thoughts may have any attributes? Is it possible that this is also just a thought?
Memories can never be real, because they are just thoughts too. I was thinking that maybe if someone had a traumatic experience in the past, like near drowning in the lake and then he when he sees lake, is very frightnend, so maybe that memory comes from subconscious level to remind the present moment.. ? Well, okey maybe I got it now: the memory at that moment isn't real, the feeling of fear is. Yes okey, memories can never be real!
Very good. A memory is a thought appearing now, in the present moment. There might be simultaneously arising emotions (like fear) with it. And yes, in direct experience there is (1) an arising thought labelled as ‘memory’ and (2) a sensation in the body labelled as ‘fear’.

Can we say that a memory is the content of a thought?
A memory is not real. But does it real as an arising thought in direct experience?
Is there a feeling of fear in direct experience, or there are only sensations in the body, with a simultaneously arising thought-label “this is fear”?
Nothing is outside of this moment. The mental narrative belongs this moment too. I think you your mind can travel to the past or future, speculate all kinda stuff..but your body is always at tjis moment. Breathing, smelling, seeing.. actually thereCAN'T be anything out side of this moment. This is it, life is happening only moment by moment. Our mind just travels easily dreaming or worrying or whatever...
Can the mind travel to the past or future?
What is past and future in direct experience?
Where is the mind in direct experience?
So thoughts effect your emotions and that way, can ruin your day, if you blindely listen to that as a truth. But on the other hand I get it..like thought can never ruin anything, that's a thought too! It's ALL just thoughts! !!
When a thought is believed and not seen only as an arising thought, then the associated or conditioned emotion can arise.

What is this ‘you’ or ‘I’ that can blindly listen to thoughts?
Where is it?
Check it in direct experience.
thought cant do anything. If it think it can, that's another thought too.
Exactly.
Mental narrative is also part of the current experience. I think every moment is as it is, DESPITE of the mental narrative. Life happens as it happens, moment by moment and whether you worry or dream your whole life, current experience still fully happens ALL the time.
Don’t just think whether “every moment is as it is, despite of the mental narrative”, but check it in direct experience.

Is worrying or dreaming also part of the current experience?
This last question was very good and opened "the door" a bit more! That current thought is real but it's content not. So true!! Thoughts are full of ridiciously stupid stuff, hah! That has nothing to do with REALITY. Its so hard sometimes to be aware of this and then "you" just listen to that crap.. OR actually that "you"is a thought too! Damn, that dream was good last night! I'm starting to ser..wow..it's ALL just thoughts! !!! This is wild..
Yes, very good looking.

What is it that can be aware of this?
Is there an ‘awarer’?
But have to ask you something: i did this test in my mind; singing certain song, or shout in my mind or curse...and did it. So who is it, who makes these decisions? "I" made this decision and did it. Mind and thoughts did what "I" wanted. Who or what is that, who wants to drink the tea or go out or draw.. am I just a automatic thing that does what ever LIFE wants "me" to do? The mind just thinks this "I" is in controll of everything? This is so hard to understand. .
Very good questions, but I leave these to you to find out for yourself. And yes, this is hard to understand because it cannot be understood. The illusion of self cannot be seen through with the same thinking that created it in the first place.

Here is an interesting exercise.
Choose one of your arms - It doesn't matter which.
When you have done that, rest for a moment and then when you want to, raise that arm into the air.
Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire . . .

What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?
Don't go to thoughts - examine the actual experience - Can a controlling 'I' be located?
Also . . . what is this 'I' that is choosing that particular arm?
Again, don't go to thoughts - examine the actual experience - Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?
Can you find an 'I' that chooses here right now?
Well, thank you again Vivien!!!!
It's my pleasure.

Love,
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Sayah
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Re: Seeking for a guide

Postby Sayah » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Hey Vivien!

Thanks for the introductions for the quote, now it works.. I hope. I read your post, and after that just started to cry. Felt enourmos gratitude towards you and.. well, for everything. Funny. Like with no reason first just burst in to tears. This is so great..
What makes feel that thoughts may have any attributes? Is it possible that this is also just a thought?
Yes, absolutely it is just another thought. Thought can't have any attributes.
Can we say that a memory is the content of a thought?
A memory is not real. But does it real as an arising thought in direct experience?
Is there a feeling of fear in direct experience, or there are only sensations in the body, with a simultaneously arising thought-label “this is fear”
Yes exacly, memory is a content of a thought. So it's just another thought and it is real as an arising thought in direct experience. This third question.. hmm... Yeah, if i would be a monkey and saw a lion, I would feel only sensations in my body and with an instinct I would run away.. but I'm human, and went to school and learned that lions are dangerous, so yes, I would have sensations in my body: heart beating faster, shakeing knees etc..BUT also the knowledge that be careful, so thought-label "I'm afraid" would totally arise... hmm.. so feelings are sensations in the body, NOT mind! Now I got it!So actually I don't need thoughts to feel, that actually it is totally opposite. That thoughts just label the sensations in the body. Or do I need a thought "run away" to run away? Or is there a running just happening...and then the thought of "i'm running" comes? oh, my head is burning now..
Can the mind travel to the past or future?
What is past and future in direct experience?
Where is the mind in direct experience
The past and the future doesn't exist, so mind really can't travel there. It's just another thought, imagination, the whole future and past -thing. ( after like 15 minute figuring/fighting/trying to find....to see.. uuh..this process is like working your ass off. hah! ) Past and future is just a content of thought; memory or fantasy, and they are not real. The third question.. hmmm.. mind is such a large concept..I don't know..it just is, where it is. Nowhere. In thoughts you think, your mind is somewhere, but it's just another thought. Thought of your own mind.
What is this ‘you’ or ‘I’ that can blindly listen to thoughts?
Where is it?
Yes, "I" and "me" is just another thought. It exists only in thoughts. There can't be "I" found, cos it's not real.
Is worrying or dreaming also part of the current experience?
Yes. All arising thoughts are real at every moment and part of the current experience, but it's content isn't... so if a person believes his thoughts to be real, then the current experience kinda "suffers", and he lives in imaginery world. Hmm.. actually it is his current experience, worry or dream. It is what it is.
What is it that can be aware of this?
Is there an ‘awarer’?
No, there is no an awarer, that's a thought too! There is nothing or nobody that is aware. Your mind think there is.
What is this 'I' that is controlling the arm?
Don't go to thoughts - examine the actual experience - Can a controlling 'I' be located?
Also . . . what is this 'I' that is choosing that particular arm?
Again, don't go to thoughts - examine the actual experience - Can you find an 'I' that is doing the choosing?
Can you find an 'I' that chooses here right now?
Hah, this was a wonderful test!! And it really opened my eyes. I laughed so much, when I realized, that is has nothing to do with thoughts, how my arm moved. It just moved! Such a concrete example, that there is NOBODY to move the hand! There were no I moveing or controlling the hand.

There were a thought "I'm gonna choose the right hand". Then "I" chose the right hand. Then a thought "move it now", or "no, I won't" like a dialogue.. and the hand was rising like "it wanted" while my mind was in the middle of the funny dialogue. Hah! So it has it's own way of moveing. But sometimes it moved, similary like the thought.

Right now, chooseing happens, and then the mind labells it "I am chooseing". It's not totally clear to me.. but I get it in some way and "know" that it's the truth. Like right now, I'm very tired, so I have sensations in my body; eyes tickels, yawning happens, and then the mind labells it "I'm tired, I wanna go to bed". And then "I" go to bed. So is it that I would go to bed anyways, with or without my mental narrative... that it's just commenting EVERYTHING and putting the concept of "I" in every sentence?

my head is burning right now of all this concentrateing.. uuh. I have to stop. And go to bed :)

Thanks!!

Love, Sayah


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