I'm new here

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:39 pm

Is there you in any way, shape or form?

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:36 pm

No, there is no me.

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:46 am

Was there ever?

How does it feel to see the illusion of self?
What made you see it?
How would you describe it to someone "new"?

Please take some time to answer with more words those questions.
Greetings!

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:28 am

Hello Eloratea,
How does it feel to see the illusion of self?
There is no obvious feeling about the knowing of the illusion. More an emotive detachment from the thoughts themselves. As thoughts have been popping in as they inevitably always do, there is isn't the same identification with the thought being "mine" or "me". Just a thought. There is less or no angst, or if there is because a particular thought sneaked up on me, it is quite easy to observe it and move it on. Doing this I have noticed that there is a pattern of worry I am obviously addicted to. I am not saying the the gate has been crossed, more like the layers of falsehood are being stripped down.
What made you see it?
This question I'm not sure how to answer accurately yet. I'll get back to you.

Warm regards.

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:55 am

Ok Tim.
For coming to greater clarity describe how is looking your actual experience here, now.

Till later.

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:09 am

There is the feeling of observer when thoughts pop up, most of the time. There was an unfortunate incident yesterday in which anger took over and it felt like "I" was in a feed back loop. The same thoughts over and over causing the same physical feelings causing the same thoughts.
The thought cycle is always the same, though. Thoughts about past, projections about future. From an observers point of view it seems that the "I" can only give the illusion of being real in those time frames. Past and future. When the present moment is experienced and the thoughts are quiet for that short time, then awareness sets in and reality is experienced by something higher than the mind.

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:21 am

There is the feeling of observer when thoughts pop up, most of the time.
Is there observer or it is observation plus though naming it the observer? Look and be precise. That’s the way to see through the illusions of mind.
There was an unfortunate incident yesterday in which anger took over and it felt like "I" was in a feed back loop.
Sorry about that. Hope you are fine now.
The same thoughts over and over causing the same physical feelings causing the same thoughts. The thought cycle is always the same, though. Thoughts about past, projections about future. From an observers point of view it seems that the "I" can only give the illusion of being real in those time frames. Past and future.
Good observation.
When the present moment is experienced and the thoughts are quiet for that short time, then awareness sets in and reality is experienced by something higher than the mind.
Higher or not, it is more direct experience, which is also felt as more peaceful, as there is no body tension caused by thoughts.

I meant that you describe your actual experience as noticing all the perceptions (seeing, hearing, fingers typing, body sitting, breathing….) so you shift attention from thinking on direct perceiving.
Than it is possible to clearly look if there is you in actual experience, or it is just one of the thoughts arising in experience… and check if can be found real border between you and the rest of experience.

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:39 am

I meant that you describe your actual experience as noticing all the perceptions (seeing, hearing, fingers typing, body sitting, breathing….) so you shift attention from thinking on direct perceiving.
I understand now, I misunderstood before.

as i type i feel my fingers hit the keyboard and hear the keys being tapped, breathing is normal. The breathing process is natural and needs no pilot. Fingers hitting keys is automatic too, there is perception of bad posture.
There is a thought process in action to know what to type, then there is illusion of self which is causing an illusion of border. It feels that what I'm writing isn't making sense. I need more time to answer these questions.
There was an unfortunate incident yesterday in which anger took over and it felt like "I" was in a feed back loop.


Sorry about that. Hope you are fine now.
Thank you. It actually turned out to be a good emotion to study, and I felt a little silly for getting stuck in the loop of anger.
Is there observer or it is observation plus though naming it the observer? Look and be precise. That’s the way to see through the illusions of mind.
There is no "observer" in those quiet moments just observation. Peaceful, detached observation.

I will try and write some more later today, I'm finding this part of the process difficult to see.

Warm regards

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:16 am

I understand now, I misunderstood before.

as i type i feel my fingers hit the keyboard and hear the keys being tapped, breathing is normal. The breathing process is natural and needs no pilot. Fingers hitting keys is automatic too, there is perception of bad posture.
There is a thought process in action to know what to type, then there is illusion of self which is causing an illusion of border. It feels that what I'm writing isn't making sense. I need more time to answer these questions.
Need to clear a bit perception. Is there anything in between you and experience? It is ok to say „I“ type. But when you zoom in the experience how it looks like? Is there someone thinking thoughts or thoughts arise as part of the experience. Is there some observable experiencing agent?
It actually turned out to be a good emotion to study, and I felt a little silly for getting stuck in the loop of anger.
Was there you stuck?
Was the loop created by the very same belief that there is someone; Someone which self image is endangered? Someone which only is an image?
There is no "observer" in those quiet moments just observation. Peaceful, detached observation.
Is it always so? Just plus thoughts that there is something else?
I will try and write some more later today, I'm finding this part of the process difficult to see.
It is not, despite how it looks like at the moment :)
Yes, write more,
Greetings.

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:58 pm

It is ok to say „I“ type. But when you zoom in the experience how it looks like? Is there someone thinking thoughts or thoughts arise as part of the experience. Is there some observable experiencing agent?
Ok, I see what you're getting at. The action of typing and the thoughts that arise whilst typing, are happening as that is what must happen for this one-on-one to take place. There is no-one thinking or typing. These things must be done to aid the expulsion of the illusion.

I'll be back with more later.

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:11 pm

Is there some observable experiencing agent?
There is experience, but there is no experiencing agent.

When I spoke of an observer, there is an awareness of observation taking place I can't say there is a specific observing entity.
Was there you stuck?
Was the loop created by the very same belief that there is someone; Someone which self image is endangered? Someone which only is an image?
The emotion - thought cycle were "stuck" which gave uncomfortable feelings in the body

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:28 pm

So, is there you right now?
How all this self-ing looks like now?
How this experience feels? Is there any stuck-ness, un-clarity?

Be honest and open, so we can better know where you are at.
Warm greetings!

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:45 pm

Hello again,

Thanks for your patience.

There is still an image of self and ownership of thoughts through most of the day. The mornings seem to be the best time for just experiencing thoughts and feelings of peace. Although through observation, the evidence is quite obvious that the "self" doesn't exist and that thoughts are just thoughts, not "my" thoughts, and the whole experience of living doesn't require this "I" piloting the machine. It feels like the illusion of "I" is very strong still. Maybe due to the noise of thought and that they seem almost sneaky. There are moments when I'm just trying to experience walking and in between thoughts something strange feels close to happening, but I can't think of a better way to explain it.
I feel a struggle within, although much progress has been made from the start of the one on one, I don't know how to progress from here.

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fightthegoodfight
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Re: I'm new here

Postby fightthegoodfight » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:12 pm

So, something came to "me"

"No snowflake ever falls in the wrong place" - Which is something I read once.

No decision is ever wrong, because "I" don't make that decision. Life unfolds and is experienced - Not by me, it is just experience. The mind weaves a story, because that is a side effect of the labelling machine that is so good at its job. The body is named Tim by it's parents and the mind starts to label and identify and then starts to weave this story of Tim and "his" life as a collection of memories, which then come back as thoughts, which Tim then identifies as his because they are his memories, but really they are not. They are the experience of life which will add to the collective experience of life experiencing life as it unfolds in which ever body or creature that is.

Everything written here started with the snowflake quote and then just happened.

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Eloratea
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Re: I'm new here

Postby Eloratea » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:32 pm

Sweet :)

Tell me later more about snowflake-Tim - is he afraid to surrender to free fall without belief in separate self?
Was there ever time when this snowflake had a separate self?
What changes with seeing this?

Stay well!


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